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QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:58 PM) Don't the Yankees do it every year? No the Yankees have an 80 mil. dollar per year head start on everyone due to the YES network programming. The Yankees don't go into the red, they just have more revenue than everyone due to the population size, media contracts and attendance.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:55 PM) Oh I forgot, teams have never overextended their budgets for small periods of time where they thought they could win championships. I mean, come on, sports franchises have never had economic losses, right? Right? Give me a break. reinsdorf has always siad "the investors run this team to break even and win. They will not lose money on this venture. That is where the budget comes from. They may over or underestimate a little. But JR did not make his money in real estate by poor financial speculation. Thus, they will not go into the red to field a team. This has been the policy since they bought the team in the 80's.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:46 PM) First question: perhaps. At the risk of offending you, mine make sense though. Second question: to my knowledge they set a number, that has been corroborated by other posters here who are more in the know. We always hear about midseason flexibility because KW and Hahn leave room just in case. But they work off a number. The media is telling us they are well over that number. KW said it was time for the two guys to "get serious" about extensions or he would "move ahead" with other plans. What does that tell you? Third part: You do realize saying a player will be brought to spring training is totally different than paying them through the season, don't you? For the record, to borrow your phrase, I would love the White Sox to be 6 deep in starting pitching. However, I have been around long enough to realize they operate on a budget and run the finances as a zero sum game. You, on the other hand, seem unwilling or incapable of accepting that reality. Jim, it's useless, he won't accept reality. Everyone who has been following the Sox transactions and activity knows JG is gone. He probably still thinks trading CLee was all about getting Pods et al. and nothing to do with spreading the budget around.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:03 PM) I know that the biggest fear I have, as well as RockRaines, is that KW is so set on trading Garland, that he might take a lesser offer just to get rid of him. If KW is just set on getting relievers, then we're not going to get full value for Garland. We won't get full value anyway, whatever that is. Everyone knows he is leaving after next year. Everyone knows KW is trying to get something for him before he leaves. Before everyone jumps on the "look what we gave for Freddy." Morse suspended for roids again. Reed on the trading block and Olivo non-tendered. How much was there? Also, had a track record of very good seasons. Garland has a track record of 1 and what many people thought was a head case not living up to his potential. I would be the first one to try to keep him but the circumstances prohibit that. I trust KW will take the best offer he gets and there is nothing more he can do.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:55 AM) Last season the best starter for the full season was Jon Garland...hands down. I love Buehrle, but he really hit a funk at one point and Contreras was amazing in the 2nd half but had a so-so 1st half (maybe even worse than so-so). Get your heads out of your asses and realize this. We will be trading our best pitcher of last year whose entering his prime and instead go with a guy in Vazquez who has great stuff but has b****ed and moaned the last two places he has gone while not living up to his potential. I'm sorry, I hate this move and I wish the Sox would take its chances on Garland. Worse case we get draft picks. I liked this team better before we made the Vazquez deal cause the Vazquez deal meant he was going to replace Garland in the rotation. However, financially I understand some things. But we are defending world series champs, keep the god damn pitching staff in tact or upgrade it, but don't give up our best starter from last year unless your getting a s***LOAD in return. Ken Williams will get hammered by me if he doesn't make some good moves. I don't buy into this Jon only will play on the west coast either. He's being smart, but no one is going to tell me if you didn't offer him up a 5/60 deal he wouldn't at least think long and hard. I'm not saying do it, but maybe you throw it his way near the middle of the season and move someone else. Garland has been steady and really turned a corner next year. I'll be shocked if he isn't amongst the NL's best next year (if he does go to the NL). All of your points are valid except: 1. The White Sox will not offer a pitcher more than 4 years. Some other sucker will. Look at all of the contracts signed for more than four years and they all have injury issues or they were young and were inconsitent and not worth the money. There may have been one or two that have worked out but the odds are against it. 2. Garland does not want to be here. From So Cal. his future bride is from Hawaii and wants to stay in So. Cal. Call it "Curtis Conway" syndrome. In order for him to stay we would really have to overpay. Something the Sox won't (and shouldn't) do. Especially for a pitcher who has one really good year.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 08:35 PM) Podsednik had a strained abductor/groin injury which slowed him down last season, not a simple hamstring injury. Actually, he had an adductor muscle strain. The adductor magnus specifically. Part of it acts similar to the hamstring during extension of the hip. It is the muscle that he uses to "push off" when moving laterally to steal a base. And Yes, he is healthy and will be fine for the beginning of the season. As far as his leg is concerned that is.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 10:51 AM) Miller had another surgery. He's such a health risk that teams can't count on him to be in their rotation. Didn't read all of the pages but the problem was he didn't have surgery and elected to rehab instead. I stated before last season when many posters wanted him for the rotation that it wouldn't work. It didn't. He has gotten smart and had surgery this time. He should miss a good portion of the season.

The article does a good job showing what Randle El is like. I worked with him in high school and he was a great kids then. By the way his best sport may have been baseball. If he comes here he would be the best centerfielder in town. The family values didn't rub off on Marcus however, who just got busted for beating up another student up at Wisconsin where he plays wide receiver.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2005 -> 12:09 PM) royce ring was delt for robbie alomar right? yikes, there's a not so good kenny move. id consider it better if it was the first time alomar came to the sox, but i dont remember. Yes, but Ring hasn't really panned out, so it's somewhat of a wash.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 20, 2005 -> 02:40 AM) idonno we traded for Garland right when he was elgible to be traded so Id consider him a sox prospect. SP:Mark Buehrle SP:Jon Garland SP:Kip Wells SP:Brandon McCarthy SP:Josh Fogg C:Josh Paul?/Mark Johnson 1B:Carlos Lee 2B:Ray Durham SS:Michael Morse 3B:Joe Crede LF:Aaron Rowand CF:Mike Cameron RF:Magglio Ordonez DH:Frank Thomas bullpen:Scott Eyre, Anthony Webster, Fabio Castro, Wickman, Howry(I know Giants drafted him but how early did we trade for him?), Frankie Francisco, Roger Ring?, Matt Ginter? Not so sure about the bullpen guys but heck that team isnt so bad. I put Carlos Lee at 1B because assuming we never brought in f/a's or anything thats where he would play. 1. Webster is a CF 2. It's Royce Ring

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 09:27 PM) Trade for Alvarez. O/w I think that's right. We got Alvarez along with Sosa and Scott Fletcher from Texas for HAROLD and Freddie Manrique

I agree with the Mike Cameron Comparison. High HR, high steals along with high strikeouts and low average. Since OH can't pitch out of the pen as I've said and Viz was a good but not great in middle relief. Adding Young to the deal was acceptable. especially with Anderson in CF, I like Sweeney as a better overall hitter.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) Speaking of Hill, how about Marc Hill. Or from the VERY OBSCURE ... Kelly Paris. Donnie Hill. Ken Landreaux from the Dodgers was called him "amphibious" bcause he would take infield alternating which hand he would throw the ball with.

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) Best hockey player to pitch in the Majors, and a super nice guy to boot. Tom Glavine would give him a run for his money.

QUOTE(knightni @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 03:09 AM) Ron Blomburg Danny Goodwin Bill Almon Floyd Bannister Harold Baines Tim Belcher Shawn Abner Other than being White Sox players at one time or another, what else do they have in common? The Sox drafted him in the first round twice. May have even been the number 1 pick

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Dec 16, 2005 -> 01:24 PM) well here in the afternnon I feel he will be fine... He has not pitched since OCT. that's not the type of things they'll look for in a physical. It will be things like how loose the joint capsule is and the structural integreity of the the labrum. These are things that rest doesn't help. Sirotka's injury was structural where the labrum was partially torn from the joint. That being said, he should pass the physical as these weren't the types of problems he was having last year.

From my understanding the number of suspensions is continuous. So if they already got caught once it was a 10 game but the second one goes to 100.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) I realize he's been a California boy (I assume he's a native cause I know he was the s*** back at Fullerton, Golden Spikes award winner and all that stuff), but wouldn't you think he'd at least consider waiving his no trade clause to go to the defending World Champs (plus Chicago is a really nice city). I'm sure he could talk to Rowand and ask Aaron how he liked it. I know he likes the area. He was very briefly here at Kane County when I was there.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 02:32 PM) It all depends... How great does Mark Buehrle look right now at the $9.5 million he would get in 2007, or Freddy Garcia for $8 million in 2006 and 2007? Some long term deals are damned smart when you look back on how much they get run up in the short term. True but they were 3 year deals. Those aren't what I would consider the long term deals. Guaranteed 4-5 year deals are where I think KW will draw the line. JG will get that from someone else. Not here.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 02:13 PM) I think the Cheat and I are on the same page when it comes to Garland. http://southsidesox.com/story/2005/12/7/03514/0519 Unless the marketplace changes drastically, he is going to get a lot of money, and a lot of years. If this deal is done I think this is the key. I don't think KW would have a problem with offering JG going rate for dollars such as 12 mil. I think the problem is doing it for 4-5 years. Other teams will offer it but most of the time those deals look bad in the later years. If JV comes here for 2 guaranteed years hopefully a minor leaguer will step up and be read y at that time. The risk/benefit analysis of the longer contracts for pitchers is usually not worth it.

QUOTE(SouthSide2004 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) I just found this on Foxsports.com from an article Ken Rosenthal posted 40 minutes ago: The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5163848 I don't like hearing all this "package" talk when Garland should be more valuable than Vazquez. I also don't like Chirs Young's name jumping into this. Not sure what trading El Duque and prospects would accomplish, but it would definately result in McCarthy in the pen or a trade of another starter. Garland is not more valuable. He has had one good year and is a free agent after 1 year. Players are always undervalued when they are a "rent-a-player" even if they have been consistently good. We may think he turned a corner last year but no one knows. If Hernandez is part of the deal then Young or one of the other top OF prospects probably Young is involved. This is because of the uncertainty of his health and the DBs desire for OF help especially CF.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 05:24 PM) Jason, I read somewhere the White Sox were pretty excited about Lumsden's progress during instructional league. Supposedly he is healthy. that's what I've heard also.

looks like a lot of us will be busy on the 28th

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 11:23 AM) The player decides what he wants to get, not the agent. So the only time there would be an issue is if the agent convinces the player that he is worth more money or years than he is being offered. Player gets more money, agent gets more money. This is then backed up by external offers or where the agent compares the current offer with other similar offers around the league. I agree that the Sox are not in the business of lowballing, they normally give the fair market rate to players, but they also do not over pay anyone, and that is where the problem lies. If Boras convinces Joe that he can get more money, then it is up to him to decide. The bottom line is he is not going to dump his agent just to stay in Chicago. If the Sox make him a fair offer then he stays, if he feels like it is undervalued, then he goes. Which Boras will do this to his clients. But also his negotiating tactics will decide if a player can stay with the original team. Look at Boras' two big clients: Milwood and Damon. He is holding them out until they are the last two queality players at their respective positions. This will get them more money and they have every right to do this. But do you think KW would have waited until Jan. for PK to decide what he was doing? I think KW wouldn't have waited so long to determine who was going to be on the team. In this case, it is the agent's negotiating tactics whichwould have determined that the player not go back to the original team. To say the player decides where he goes and not the agent is many times naive.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:12 PM) Wicky got out of a lot of jams last year, hopefully those men on base get in this year. The Indians, IMO, are not better this year so far, even with the extra year of growth from their players. I think Sizemore and Peralta might have sophomore slumps. We can hope but I really do like both players, offensively and defensively