ptatc

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) Thanks WT. Unfortunately I know a lot about it from seeing the damage first hand. Sad.. I wish it was zero tolerance. I agree also

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) OT.. is a BMI of 14.4 good for a 31 year old..??? I assume your refrring to yourself? If you are it's good for a female. For male it should be a little lower.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:19 PM) Any of you folks that weren't here earlier today and didn't yet comment.. care to comment on Jose's testimony today..? Anyone's opinion change about him? Think his motives are sincere? I still believe his only motive is money. He admits he could write this book because he has no friends in baseball so it didn't matter. Side note: I saw him at an ST game one year when he was playing for Texas. He was giving autographs to kids. He was giving them two each saying" keep one for yourself and see that guy over there he'll buy the other one for 50 bucks. Take and go buy lunch for your family." He sat there for an hour after the game for the kids. In my dealings with hime he wasn't a bad guy.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) But you're saying that all medical studies about steroids are utterly useless. So why aren't all medical studies utterly useless, since they use similar methods? Btw, since no reputable doctor would prescribe steroids for a healthy athlete, technically ANY such use constitutes abuse. The problem is that there are no real clinical studies showing the effects of steriods on humans. No researcher can ethically or legally give someone a substance to see if it hurts them. All the research has been done on animals. We can infer what hapeened to the animals may happen in humans and we are probably right. This however just gives more ammunition to the opposing opinion.

QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:04 PM) ptatc - My friend did a small cycle and gained 17 lbs, and went from benching 225 9 times to benching 225 15 times Thats not a bad increase for one cycle. That won't last long however and to keep it up he'll need to continue the cycles. See how long the increse lasts without continuing the cycles. This is where the health problems will arise, the continued use. It's the true conundrum of steriod use. The gains don't continue without the continued cycles and the problem and side effects increase with increased cycles. The psychological effects are inherent also. Your buddy may say "this little cycle helped me this much, it won't hurt if I do a little more and a little more won't hurt me much." As I stated before I've seen too many professional and college athletes fall into this and would strongly suggest that you or your buddy shouild stop this. However as I tell all of them I can give advice but you are your own man for better or worse.

QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:52 PM) not true my friend has made huge gains on bench press, without abusing, and without getting acne The acne part was a joke. What were the gains and the level and the length of use that will determine the abuse? If the gains were less than a 40% gain in the 1 time max rep than it wouldn't be sufficient to make a difference on an athletic field. You will not see the side effect for at 8-10 cycles. If he has been using it for less than that ( if its an oil based steriod) he won't have them yet. Steriods make the person feel good in the short term. It's the effect it has on the body long term that is the problem.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:50 PM) Yeah, absolutely, we're mostly just disagreeing on semantics, anyway. Tried the subliminal mssg, but I don't know how to make it as small as I want! It was a good try though!!!! I tried to make a come back the same way but I couldn't get it to work that well so I gave up.

QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:40 PM) yeah key word in there... ABUSE The only way to get the radical gains in performance is to abuse them. If you use them at low dosage, you only get marginal improvements in performance and a real bad case of acne.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) Okay, but then it's the players making the real choice every time they vote him back in. They value money over better policy. Not saying it wouldn't be a common choice in any circle, but it's not like he's brainwashing them. I agree but as I said earlier he makes them a ton of money so they keep him in. As Steff pointed out he doesn't negotiate the contrats but he does things such as refusing to go for the salary cap, keep in the arbitration process which artificailly increases their pay when he negotiates the CBA. Just from my dealings in the different professional sports the players in the MLB follow him more than any other sport follows what their respective leaders say. You may very well be correct but as Steff said we can agree to disagree

QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) did I say those other things were cool? No I did not.. I dont understand where you get operating machinery while under the influence from what I said, I think I made it pretty clear what I was talking about.. Give me a list, with the EXACT percentage of wrestlers who have died from steroids since the Hogan era with proof it was caused from steroids.. without that I dont believe that bulls***.. so far, from what I have witnessed with my friends.. it has not "decreased" any qulaity in their life.. Listen to Steve Courson talk. He has had a heart transplant and a liver transplant due to his abuse of steroids in the NFL. How about Lyle Alzado who deid of a brain tumor caused from the steriods. While its true that there has been no clinical trails to definitively state steriods will kill you (as stated at the hearings) the evidence is growing as the NFL players from the late 70's to early 90's get older. We will see how many die early. Todd Bell from the Bears in the 80's died of a heart attack at the age of 46. While this does occur in the normal population it shouldn't occur in a man of his fitness level at the time of death. I'm not saying he was on steriods for sure butt watch the deaths of NFL players from the time period when they had a minimal steriod policy and it may change your mind.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Since the players, vote the guy in, I agree with Steff on this. It'd be pretty easy to replace him if they actually wanted a different style. It's true they vote him in, however I think he dictates the policy and they follow it. Because of the money he makes for them the don't attempt to vote him out. Regardless of who is leading the lemurs, I agree with you that the union is a little at fault then the owners, although the owners didn't try real hard in these negotiations.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 07:33 PM) The players are the road block. Fehr is their puppet. I don't believe Fehr is the puppet. Like Marvin Miller, the head of the union convinces the players this is the right thing and they follow. Remember when the Sox as a team were going to skip the drug tests to make sure the minimum amount of negatives were found? Fehr went to Az and convined them not to do this because it may hurt other players. He has a great deal of power and the players as a group listen. I truly believe most players believe that tougher testing would be good but the union leaders have fought against it.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 01:52 PM) Guess I'm alone on this one. I just think he's arrogant and irritating. Whatever. Schilling is a great guy. Just ask him, he'll tell you.

Sosa is sitting between his attorney and interpreter. If he doesn't speak English very well, how will he know what his attorney is saying? Does his attorney speak Spanish?

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) Testing for high school athletes seems like a no-brainer to me. When I played high school football, & swimming we were required to pass physicals. The school didn't administer it but we had to have the paperwork from our physicians to be eligible to play those sports. It seems like a no-brainer to me to simply include blood testing for not just doping but also std's & blood related diseases in these physicals for high school athletes. It seems to me that this would help greatly with those kids who grow an additiction to doping. Aside: They only made a special case for Thomas. All the rest have to appear in person. Big Frank via tele-conferencing from Tucson. Maybe Sosa doesn't understand the full range of substances that fall under doping. This a great point however the reality comes down to cost. With the trouble most state's schools are in, who is going to pay for it. The testing process and the lab fees are not cheap.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) Both sides are assholes.. but I lean more towards the players being at fault for the sissy drug policy. I agree

I agree with your comments about Pellman. However, I think he just said somthing that gives us a clue as to what Selig will say. He said he would recommend to MLB that the Minor league policy is the best because it was implemented without negotiations. Selig is going to blame the union for not allowing MLB to institute the policy they wanted.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 12:43 PM) MLB is not the only one to blame. Kids in all sports are doping to get an edge. That goes for high school, college, minors, & majors. If there is anything substantial to come out of these hearings it's that those making $ from sports telecasts should be responsible for educating the public & using personalities to make doping the worst thing imaginable for a kid. To me that is more important than developing testing standards that simply make it more difficult for athletes to cheat. I would like them to ask Jose Canseco, Jason Giambi, Brian Bosworth, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, & Mark McGuire whether they think any player could consistently look into the eyes of high school kids & tell them doping is horrible & then turn around & continue to dope themselves. I believe the answer would unanimously be no. Exactly, I guess that is what I've been tryingto say. Could you edit my next manuscript?

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 12:37 PM) BALCO took a while to be discovered.. Thats what I mean. Illegal producers won't be discovered unless someone turns them in, as the track coach did in the BALCO case. So it does very little good to look for all of the manufacturers becuase where there is a demand there is a market. We need to focus on the demand (players) and stop it there.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 12:35 PM) I'm glad for you. I've seen 3 lives destroyed by roids. One a pro player. It was not pretty. I agree with you. I have seen too many lives ruined. When I was doing some work with a professional football team north of here, they drafted an offensive tackle from a university in Michigan who was obviously on steriods. He was a great guy but got caught and lost 35 pounds of muscle during training camp. He was never really an effective player and came down with many medical problems and still isn't right and never will be.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 12:33 PM) I believe he was referring to the medical ones. If thats the case, those are such a small percentage of what's out there and it wouldn't be much of a problem.

Ok now the goofball from Penn. wnats to know where the illegal steriods are produced. Where are all of the meth labs? If we knew this, we could stop the problem. Where great sums of money are involved people will find a way to make them. I wish these politcians would think before they talk.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 12:17 PM) GMAFB... they already know roids are bad and wrong. No need to say don't do them... slap the s*** out of the players doing them.. make them an example.. and scare the s*** out of the kids that want to be ball players by letting them know that if they do them they will NOT make it into professional sports. I don't think this is necessarily true. They routinely do surveys in the NFL and ask the players "if you know steriods will take 10 years off your life will you still do them. " Most years over 50% said they will still do them because where else can I make millions of dollars for myself and my family. I think they need to get the example and education out to the kids also.

The moron from Indiana just asked the researcher if "the research on animals showed an improvement in hand-eye coordination" becuase this would benefit baseball players more. How would you test this? Last time I checked animals do not have hands.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 16, 2005 -> 02:37 PM) Anyone want to go out on a limb and say Diaz is wearing a different uniform by the end of the week, if not the end of the day? I think a young pitcher with a good arm has trade value with someone. Look at someone like Joe Nathan. Good not great minor league numbers, couldn't cut it as a starter in the majors but has success as a reliever. I'm not saying Diaz is Nathan but good arms are hard to find and are in demand.