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QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) 5 year deal, mlb.com is reporting. I've never been happier to not acquire a player. Time to get creative KW. Interesting timing as well. I agree. This would not have been the piece to help the Sox.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 09:43 AM) The count is a real simple formula. You can pretty much tell what kind of outing he will have based on his arm slot versus righties. If he is mainly arm slot high, dropping down on 2 strikes to put the hitter away he will be good; if he is mainly side arm to righties, he will get rocked. Hopefully the Count is energized and is working out his lower half and his back. I still believe that there was a back issue last year, there is no reason for a pitcher to completely change his mechanics this far into ones career unless you are compensating for an injury. Dropping down is a classic back or leg stress reliever. I would rather see him up top more so he can get more of a downward action on his splitter and keep his fastball within the zone. If he does that, he should be a pretty good pitcher. Dropping down can also be a compensation for shoulder pain. When the humeral head rides up and compresses into the acromion the rotator cuff, bursa and labrum become pinched. If a pitcher starts to drop down there is usually an injury to one of these tissues. However since JC as always had this in his arsenal I wouldn't worry about it. Dropping down also decreases pitch velocity while increasing lateral movement on the pitch, this becomes the slider injury to the elbow. In retrospect I think this is what happened to Garcia.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 02:11 PM) Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve. Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here. Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis. Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside. What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round. i wholehearted agree. I don't think some of the people here remember the schuler era or like me have chosen to wipe it out of my mind.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) Williams won't be fired. Look up "Jerry Krause" for details.... that's right. As long as your loyal, have a plan and are successful, you will be around. If KW has multiple unsuccessful years ala JK then he will be gone, not after only a few bad seasons. The Sox had back to back 90 win seasons before last year. Now we need to see how the next 2-3 go before KW is in danger of losing his job.

QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) Why would it be a bad PR move?? Would ticket sales go down? Would people write fewer stories about the Sox or give us less attention in the media? Would it undo all the goodwill that KW and Ozzie have been building? Besides, we've got alot of 'boyscouts' on our team. I don't think adding Bonds would taint the public image of our club that badly. People didn't hate the Giants because he played in San Francisco. They may not like the player, but it's unlikely to carry over to the team. And as VanceLaw said... winning is great PR. The bad PR would be that next to only maybe Gary Sheffield he is the biggest piece of crap of a human being I've ever met in professional sports and that's saying alot. You couldn't find a person (and I use that term lightly) that would anger an entire fan base quickly. I guarantee any knowledgeable fan would dislike him as soon as he started playing.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) I wish we could be in the National League where we'd have a fighting chance! Literally: Here, it's hard to have a fighting chance with fifty cents, restrictions with Scott Boras and no farm, I guess. Doesn't help when the huge payrolls are in the East, Detroit's spending money, four of the better GMs in baseball are in your division and the division is stacked. Which are the four Dombrowski, Shapiro..........

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:38 AM) He'd be going from playing in two of the best hitting parks to the worst. I look forward to seeing him against Jake Peavy 6 times a season. Right now, I have a feeling though that Juan Pierre might be our CF next season. Yuck, it's not the worst option but it is hardly a good one either.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) Whether you've seen enough or not isn't necessarily the question. Right now, the D-Rays had seen enough to judge that Garza was worth one of the top position prospects in the game. Broadway certainly is not at that level of value. good point, if we were in the same discussions for the trade.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:23 AM) In professional sports "ceilings" and talent outweigh production. The flaw in White Sox drafting is to draft projectable guys not ceiling guys hence they pass on Garza for Broadway, how did that work out. Teams want the flash which Bedard can give you as oppossed to the production which Buerhle and Garland give. Has Bedard ever thrown 200 innings in a season? Is it a flaw or just different philosophy? I haven't seen enough of Garza or Broadway to make a determination yet.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) I'd like that to happen too, but it appears KW is set going into the season with both Danks and Floyd in the rotation. Colon and Garcia should be able to find starting gigs somewhere else. I think if KW is going to take a flier on someone, it'll be with a guy like Clement. I also wouldn't mind taking a flier on Jon Lieber seeing as his injury last season was in his foot and not his back, shoulder, or elbow like these other guys. Although, Jon may find a guaranteed starting gig elsewhere. Garcia won't be ready until at least June after the labrum surgery this past year.

This will be a big time gamble for whoever signs him to this deal. I would be very hesitant to sign this deal. Hopefully the scouts have worked overtime on this one. Half of this board will rip KW whichever way it goes. He either signed him to a bad deal or was too cheap to beat the other teams.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 07:16 PM) Well known to treat their players like s***. The cubs, phillies, and pick your poison in NYC are by far the worst fans to their players. The cubs loonies can unravel a player by March. I agree. However that is not the international perception. They are the powerful and marketable New York teams or the lovable Cubbies. Eveyone in the Asian markets loves those teams.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) I don't get this philosophy. Who says we couldn't get MORE for him than what we got? Why do people assume we could have gotten MORE in every trade? KW always settles for the wrong package in trades. Looking at other teams message boards, thier "fans" say the same thing. The Angels message board couldn't believe that all they got for a gold glove shortstop who is really coming into his own with hitting was a barely average innings innings starter when they already had 5-6 good starting pitchers. Unless you know of another offer on the table that was significant better than this one, of course.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 04:37 PM) 1. So? Timo was the All Star MVP, wasn't he? And Heath Phillips dominated that league. It is an atrocious league, and he makes starts in places other than Charlotte, sorry -- that an "old" (age and experience) pitcher beats up on that league means s***. 2. No. a.) The Tigers lineups, and the size of that field, helped Gavin more than you can now; and Cleveland? They faced him in the rain -- the fortune of circumstance! (I also believe many starters were out.) b.) I don't hate him -- I just know who he is, and I'm not going to pretend that him starting for the White Sox is anything but trouble. 3. Rich Hill was at Iowa until he was 26, he was older than Gavin. Hill had decent success for the Cubs. I would be pleased if he performed as well as Hill.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 10:25 PM) If 2nd helpings is still on this team, he will be the starting 2nd baseman. There will be a "competition" that will wind up with Uribe winning it. Hawk will talk about how Uribe can carry a team, and how Uribe and Cabrera would be the bestest infield in the history of baseball. Ozzie will talk about a "new and refocused" Profundo who will once again swing at balls that bounce it. If he is on the team come ST, he will start. I would be completely shocked if Richar starts if Uribe is still here. On the same thought, if Crede is here Ozzie will park Fields on the bench or they will send him down to get him solid ABs. We will go for it, only to fail and cost our kids an opportunity to get better. Its a vicious circle of craptitude. If Crede is still around, he will start. Only to showcase him to prove he is healthy to bring more in a trade.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 06:39 PM) Yeah they have a lot of integrity, just ask the old injured players looking for help paying their medical bills while the McCaskey's and the rest in their fraternity count their money. That's not a McCaskey issue it's a union issue. The NFLPA has done an adequate job in obtaining benfeits for recent players but has never adequately addressed what to do about the older players. Why because the current players really don't care about what happened to the players before there was the escalation of salaries. "They didn't pay the share that we do, so why should we pay for them." It's tough issue because I can see both sides of it.

Watch "the sky is falling" and KW bashing when Fukudome picks the Cubs because they are more well known internationally.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) So I guess we're hoping like hell that the Angels decide to acquire Scott Rolen. I still like the idea of making a run at Reggie Willits if Figgins isn't available though. Of all of the options out there, Willlits maybe my favorite.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 07:16 PM) Ozzie isn't immature; he's just young AND old-school. One day, he'll be like Bobby Cox or Tony LaRussa -- assuming he can get a General Manager and Owner who give him good horses, anyway. Crap that's right!!! Look at how many more World Series wins Bobby Cox has than Ozzie!!!!!!

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 06:06 PM) I'm pretty sure they'd rather keep Kemp instead of Ethier, just because of the power potential Kemp has. Kemp would probably cost us DLS (unless we were willing to trade Konerko, they could move Loney to RF again). I think they've been rumored still to be after a third baseman though, and Crede could be a good fit for them. Still a lot of question over Andy LaRoche's back, so if they let him have a good season in AAA for a whole year, and then they can either trade him or promote him depending on how well Crede does in 2008. Crede for Ethier, maybe with us giving up one of our bullpen arms possibly (may have to throw in a prospect as well). I would love to get Ethier. I think he will be a very good player in the years to come. I hope that package would do it.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) That is another big lie from the Sox management. They say Boras is not an issue, but we never keep our players represented by him or trade for those he reps. I will not change my stance that a move to trade Crede is not a good one for this team, but of course that doesn't mean a thing as I am not KW. As a fan I can tell you that I am not happy with these types of decisions though. the only reason Boras is an issue is that he overvalues his clients and lies to other teams about what his client has been offered. The man lies and cheats to get his client the best offer. Some people don't mind it, others prefer to deal with others. I would prefer to deal with others.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) I am tired of it. I posted this same type of reply to something on the board. We hear it every year. We will spend the money to build a winner, but we only see the opposite. ths Sox have nearly 100 million committed to 14 players. By the time the final rosters are in they will have a top 5-7 salary in baseball? More than enough money to compete. I'ts not how much you spend it's spending it properly. I don't think you can knock them for how much but if it's spent on the appropriate players. The biggest deals are to Thome, Buerhle, Dye, Konerko, Vasquez, contreras and cabrera I believe. Start getting rid of the contracts you disagreed with when they were signed or obtained. Let 'er rip.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) Thome doesn't hit into too many double plays (you have to make contact for that to happen). The person hitting behind him would. Too many slow station to station guys equals many double plays.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) Let me ask you folks this. Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost. Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2. Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades? If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem. I agree. Move on from here and begin to gain experience for the young players: Fields, Richar, Quentin and build as we can without the long heavy contracts to weigh the team down.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) nobody is saying its too late to assemble the team, the frustrating part is that many of the pieces people envisioned on the 08 team are gone because either we 1.) got out bid or 2.) have finally seen that 5 years of deteriorating a farm system without replenishing it is finally catching up to us hopefully the changes in the scouting department will help this. The scouting and development of players is the greatest weakness in this organization.