Dam8610

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Also really didn't think about having a top 5 pick versus 10-15th pick. Also a good point and why I'm not GM. However I'm not sure how much correspondence there is between a top 5 pick becoming a star versus a mid round pick being a star... If you look the guys we traded for you have Kopech who was a sandwich pick and a buncha Latin players which were signed for pennies (OR A s*** ton in Moncada). You look at the Cards and such and they didn't need top 5 picks. I think you need a competent staff making good picks consistently from rounds 2-10 that can be serviceable MLB players and then hitting on a few stars via international and 1st round picks. The higher picks increase the probability that the player they're getting is going to be a franchise altering impact player. 21 teams (including the White Sox) regret passing on Mike Trout, but obviously very few people saw Trout becoming what he is today, or he would've been drafted 1-1 and the Washington Nationals would have far and away the best team in baseball right now. Ultimately it's still about how the team scouts and develops, but having a high pick makes their job easier.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 09:46 AM) So from time to time I think about another way to put together this team in 2017 and I get to thinking, maybe we can do a teardown while maintaining the ability to win. My thought process behind it? It may allow us to have more leverage on Quintana and Robertson, etc. while maybe not looking like hot garbage next year. Here's just an idea, and it was kind of ruined with the Wellington Castillo pick up by the O's -- but: Let's sign: Josh Hamilton to a 1 year deal for like $1-2mm - way I see it? He's getting Minor league interest. He's a roll of the dice like Rollins. You probably end up cutting him - but let's say he has a mini revival and hits .250 with 15 homers by the deadline? You can turn that into a low level prospect lottery ticket possibly. Jose Bautista to a 2 year deal for like $30mm. His market is very small right now and all signs point back to Toronto. There are rumors about a 3 year deal with a 1 year opt-out. Maybe going high on price for 2 years is worth the risk. We have the money and if he reverts back to his younger numbers you can have a masher in your lineup that you can flip. We have the luxury of taking a risk. A team fighting for the playoffs can't sign a Joey Bats and if he flops eat that. With only a two year contract, and if performing, he could get you a nice haul - probably similar to whatever Beltran got. If he fails? Who cares. We have almost no salary. Wellington Castillo: Obviously can't do that anymore. An OF type: Colby Rasmus/Ben Revere - to one year deals. Both are acceptable. Or another similar type. Again same thinking, they can help us be competitive and add something to the team and can be flipped down the stretch. Not like they'll get much back in a haul, but both have played well in the past. Justin Morenau - again same. He didn't do badly last year. Very meh. But can get him at $1-2mm probably. Worth it. Pitching - Rubby De La Rosa - Coop type of fix guy. He does have some good stuff and can get strikeouts. Over the years I've had him on my fantasy team and he'll mow down teams for 3-4 starts at a time and then get shelled the next 2. Very up and down. Maybe something Coop can see and fix. Those type of pitchers can be so valuable ala Rich Hill if they ever figure it out. Jake Peavy: This is more cause I like the guy. But also I wouldn't mind him in the clubhouse talking to the younger guys in Lopez and Kopech (Spring Training) and Giolito, Rodon, Fulmer, etc. Now that's a lot of guys and obviously we wont get them all, so I'll pick out a few and put together a lineup: CF- Revere LF - Melky 1B - Abreu DH - Joey Bats/Morneau/Hamilton (obviously if this is the latter two you move them down in the lineup) 3B - Frazier 2B - Moncada SS - Anderson RF - Rasmus C - Warm Body Out of all those guys -- every one can be on a 1-2 year deal except Abreu/Moncada/Anderson and those guys are who I want to stick around. Joey Bats is the most aggressive signing and riskiest but a middle lineup like Abreu/Bautista/Frazier mashes. Then pitching: Quintana Rodon Gonzalez Holland De La Rosa Again more pitchers mentioned than we have space for. Probably cut out Peavy. Move Shields to long relief and #6. Undoubtedly someone gets hurt. You still have Jones and Robertson. It's actually maybe a competitive team in the first half and you can still tear down at any given point this year. Your bench has Lawrie and Tilson and Saladino. You have a very capable OF with Revere and Rasmus chasing balls down. You have infield depth and versatility. A few lotto tickets in the pithcing rotation.... I mean, stuck in Sox mediocrity, but could be an 85 win team and doesn't stop you from tearing down at any point. I know I'll get roasted for this post, just devil's advocate. you are signing guys with previous upside to short term deals that you can flip and yet remain competitive keeping somewhat of an upperhand on the trade market. I, for one, don't want another "squint really hard and you can see 85 wins" type of team. That's just going to keep them in that 70-80 win range that usually results in a low top 10-high teens draft pick. The White Sox need to get top 5 picks in the next two drafts, in which they will hopefully be able to draft college position players like Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) $8 million isn't a lot to this team. Plus, if he reaches the $8 million, he would probably be considered a steal knowing that he reached whatever the incentives are. Plus if he pitches that well, he's likely on another team by the end of August.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) Evan Grant reports that Holland can earn up to $8MM if he maxes out his incentives. At which point the Sox are likely only paying $5MM of it anyway.

I'm already actively doing so and the season hasn't even started yet. I want them to be as bad as possible to get the best player possible to add to the core of the franchise for the compete window, which could be as early as 2019 depending in part on what the team gets out of the next two drafts. I'm hoping the White Sox get the #1 pick and the best player is a college hitter, such as Seth Beer who many here have talked about. That would accelerate this process greatly IMO.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) I wonder if it takes a third team to get a deal done with the Astros for Q. Not if they're willing to part with Reed and Stubbs along with Martes and Tucker.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 09:30 AM) I want Carlos Correa. Nothing less than Altuve, Correa, and Bregman for Q!

The only thing I don't like about these two is that the White Sox took another chance on an athlete with a sketchy hit tool when they've had a difficult time developing those players.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) #TankForBeer #BeerisGood

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 11, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) I was of the mind that we didn't have to trade Q, he could help the young pitchers, etc., etc. But now I think we do need to trade him. He's not going to get any better (probably not any worse either - but he could) and some teams need a starter very badly. I don't see his value increasing. Yea they could trade him at midseason...but at midseason teams want to buy an available starter for what he will do the rest of that year, with future years secondary. Much of the value of Q is what he will do for 4 years...that needs to be traded now. With the Astros, I would insist on Tucker; Tucker and one of those stud pitching prospects, plus some upside buys in the lower minors would be fine. Shields can help the young pitchers...needs to do something to earn his money; pitching to a decent 4th starter level would help as well. One of Jones or Robertson needs to be traded before the season; the other can be traded in July. If it's Robertson staying, he gets a chance to redeem for a mediocre 2016; if it's Jones, he gets an opportunity to show he can close. Given my druthers, I would prefer to move Jones now and Robertson in July; I think Robertson can improve his value more, worth the risk of further value deterioration. Abreu - trade him when you get a good offer. Frazier - we'll probably move him before the season and probably for not a great return. I would kind of prefer to hold onto him and watch.... Given that Frazier and Robertson won't, imo, bring back huge returns, we might want to look at a backstop, who's probably currently 2nd string, with a couple of years of experience, as part of the return. One who knows how to frame and play defense. Reed/Tucker/Martes/Stubbs?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 11, 2016 -> 09:19 AM) ^^^I'm still in awe with how incredible that defense was last year too. It wasn't passable, it wasn't good, it wasn't great...it was freaking incredible! He's a better defender than Addison Russell and it's not really close to the eye test. Never would have projected that in a million years. His offensive game is kind of old school and I'm looking for him to hold his mud this year and maybe break out in 2018. If his pattern on his path through MiLB continues, his breakout campaign will be 2017.

QUOTE (Soxcessful @ Dec 11, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) I must admit I'm a bit nostalgic for all of the sox front office is overmatched and incompetent posters..?What has impressed me the most about Hahn is that in this era of advanced metrics and computer enhanced scouting down to high schools almost everything about a player is known prior to a transaction. Major Trades are no longer simply an exchange of talent but more often exploiting need or finance to exploit and enhance already known value. Hahn has done a masterful job matching 2 or 3 teams against each other to meet his high but long established value of his players to get the uncompromised return he seeks.Quintana is worth the price established with Houston Atl Colorado etc but that price was known to those teams for some time. As Hahn has no financial or need to win pressure he can wait for those pressures to build on the buyers side and ultimately get his desired return. Simply by trading with the red sox and Nast he has subtly increased the need to win pressure on almost all in on Quintana and Robertson. Color me impressed with the team as a negotiator. Now we have to find out exactly who has been in charge of the recent major league talent evaluations and somehow include them in the package being sent off Didn't they make him third base coach?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) I think Robertson ends up in Washington For what?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 11:21 PM) 100% agree. I really hope neither guy signs with the Dodgers, that would be the best case scenario for us. I think Jansen signing with the Dodgers and Turner signing elsewhere works out best for the Sox. Robertson can block a deal to LAD, but not MIA. If the Dodgers are desperate for Frazier and the Marlins desperate for Robertson, Hahn could squeeze a nice return out of both teams.

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 09:59 PM) The way I look at it the Twins have not improved at all and will roughly be about the same. Cleveland will run away with the division again. Tigers will finish in second unless they sell off their stars (which could happen before the season or at the deadline, although I doubt it all together) so if the prospects make the impact that they should we will be competing with KC for 3rd place. Yes we lost our 2 best P's in my scenerio and our CF but I don't think it effects us as much as most people think. Our biggest problem was the offense (which should be the same or just slightly improved). Our bullpen can't be worse. So I forsee about the same results as last year, maybe a little regression. With KC they lost one of the most important players from their bullpen which was the strongest aspect of their team. Other than that they are about the same. Thus I see a little regression from them. Getting the #1 pick is the ideal outcome for jumpstarting this rebuild, so that's the outcome for which I'm hoping.

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 09:26 PM) I honestly believe that if the Sox trade Q for a great package then they will have a legit chance to improve on their finish from last year. I can see a 3rd place finish in the division or even 2nd depending on the performance of the prospects when they hit the big leagues. I want to be optimistic, but this is way too far. The Indians, Royals, and Tigers will all have much better 2017 teams. The Twins might even have a better 2017 team. Personally, I'm hoping the White Sox have the 2018 #1 pick. That will require every team to be better than the 2017 White Sox.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 08:16 PM) Josh Norris ‏@jnorris427 Source: Danny Espinosa has been traded from the #Nationals to the #Angels link Didn't get much for him, then.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) Yea I put Tucker + in my post so I don't know where you were getting at there. As iamshack said, they are lukewarm in including Martes as well. Then I suppose they and their fanbase can be fired up about those two not helping them win in the playoffs at all while the TOR starter they needed is pitching somewhere else.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) Anderson as a hitter screams Starling Marte to me. I'd take that level of production.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:54 PM) The recent Chapman and Jansen signings actually help the Sox from the standpoint of both limited closers on the market and it makes his 2 years, $24 million remaining contract seem far more palatable than it would have been 6 months ago for a team When did Jansen sign?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Really?! FIP is a far better stat than ERA to begin with as it takes fielding out of the picture WHIP is also really important I would look at those before saves and ERA which can be skewed and don't tell me much about performance I wish he were Andrew Friedman right about now.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:46 PM) Houston needs a TOP badly. They'd get mauled in the playoffs with McHugh and other clowns Apparently not bad enough to trade what it takes to get one.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) He's talking about Collins, not Severino. Yes, that's likely where the confusion happened.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) This probably answers my question as I was not aware he had a projectable bat. He's a bat first prospect, drew Kyle Schwarber comps.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) Here's the reality, the vast majority of people at a baseball game aren't there for the game. They're there for the attraction. You can still attract fans by making it reasonably priced and fun. It's not rocket science. The Bill Veeck method of selling baseball tickets.