Dam8610

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) Buster Posey baby, Buster Posey. Better yet, best catcher of all time...Zack Collins. I like the ring of that. He'll need to vastly improve his defense and slightly improve his bat for that to be a reality.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 10, 2016 -> 08:16 AM) Just curious as to everyone's thoughts. After last night's 4 hit performance, in 70 at-bats Morneau is hitting .300 with 3 homeruns, 9 RBI, OPS of .851 While 70 ABs is a small sample size, I think that Morneau has proven that he is still capable of hitting well at the professional level. The power may not be there, but he is still finding holes and putting the bat on the ball which is waaay more than any other recent Sox DH has done. Should the Sox strongly consider offering him a contract for the DH position next season? He does solve a hole in the lineup...good left-handed bat and a DH (2 birds one stone). If so, would a 2 year deal be too much? He's 35, turns 36 in May 2017. I don't think so...not a big fan of these 1-year rentals and it's not like Morneau is 38, but maybe they need to see how he hits the rest of the season. His current HR pace would give him 26 HRs over 600 ABs, so call him a 25-30 HR bat while hitting .300 with an OPS right at .850. If he can keep up that pace for the rest of the year, and he's willing to take, say, 2/$10, why not? That's a bat you want in your lineup.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) The idea of trading both Sale and Quintana seems very unrealistic. That not only suggests a total rebuild, which is not the White Sox way, but the task of building a formidable staff, with both of them gone, would be Herculean. A staff led by Quintana, as the Ace, Rodon as a #2 and Fulmer, with another youngster and a veteran, would be feasible. Of course, there is no guarantee, but it's doable. Without Sale and Q, they would need to rebuild the whole staff. Even a rebuild requires a core, and without either Sale and Quintana, what would be the core of the pitching staff? Doesn't it make more sense to trade one of the two, aa well as other veterans, such as Frazier, Melky and Robertson, in order to acquire the other pieces for a rebuild? The answer is your core comes from a combination of the trades and the rebuild of the system internally. For example, if the White Sox traded Sale to LA and Q to BOS and in those deals got Urias, De Leon, Pederson, Verdugo, Moancada and Benintendi among others, those guys would be part of the core moving forward. Rodon and Anderson would certainly be part of the core, as would Eaton if not moved, though I would move everyone on the MLB roster for whom I got a good offer if I'm trading Sale and Q, Fulmer and Collins would likely be considered strong candidates to become part of the core, as would the high draft picks the team would have over the next few seasons. In short, the answer is trading both means going into full rebuild mode.

If the White Sox do decide to sell, it is a golden opportunity because they will have the two most valuable assets on the trade market in Sale and Q. The Dodgers are saying they'd move Urias in a Sale deal, he's a nice starting point, something that includes De Leon, Pederson, and 3 more quality prospects sounds good. Then get Moancada, Benintendi and 3-4 more quality prospects for Quintana. Then sell the other MLB parts for interesting players/prospects, and hope for about a 60% hit rate and you have a very competitive team by 2018 or 2019.

If they're looking to add, they should be targeting Lucroy. If they're looking to sell, they should be auctioning everyone off to the highest bidder and be Astros bad for a couple seasons and allow themselves to bust caps in the draft and July 2 signings to cultivate a lot of young talent to put together a long sustained run of success. There isn't much gain to be had in doing nothing, but it seems the most likely course for White Sox brass to take.

Why is this presented as an either/or question? If you're going to blow it up, BLOW IT UP. In today's market, it seems like every team is trying to simultaneously compete and develop a strong minor league system thanks to the two wild card system, but if the White Sox are truly tired of being "mired in mediocrity" as Hahn put it, then they need to pick a direction and stick with it. That means if they plan to sell everything off, they need to sell everything off. They did this in 2013, but that team was so bad that "everything" didn't consist of much, and still wound up yielding most of the talent the team has today. So, if they're going to rebuild, they need to do it right this time. Trade Sale, Q, Shields, Gonzalez, Abreu, Lawrie, Frazier, Cabrera, Eaton, Robertson, Jones, even Jackson, Avila, and Navarro if you can get anything for them. Bring the Charlotte Knights to MLB, get several high draft picks in a row, and leverage all the talent you get from trades and the draft into a competitive team realistically by 2019. It gives Anderson and Rodon all the time they need to get seasoned and be the leaders of the team, gives the team time to determine if Fulmer can start and Collins can catch, and gives the team a HUGE budget for the draft and LatAm signings. If most things broke right, this strategy would lead to a short term and long term competitive team by the goal date.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 01:10 AM) If any team wants Lucroy badly the Sox have zero chance of getting him. And given how he's probably one of the top 3 guys on the market and he plays a premium position he is a likely overpay for a team with a stacked system. The SP market is considered fairly barren at the moment, but one of the best pitchers on the market just moved for someone that is put in the same value range as Carson Fulmer. Given that, if the White Sox strike quickly, they may be able to make the deal before some prospect rich team gets desperate. QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 02:37 AM) So will this be the NL bat that will finally work for the Sox? Dunn, LaRoche, Frazier....career NL bats.....is there a pattern here? The pattern is that the White Sox pursue and overpay for power bats and ignore the mediocre average and high strikeout rates, only to have those things bite then in the ass. Lucroy is not that type of bat, and it seems dumb to eliminate half the players in the league from trade consideration just because they're in the NL. QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 03:29 AM) No come on please you just didn't say the E word did you? Who the hell passes up free agency unless they are tied to an organization since birth? Lucroy wouldn't have any such loyalty to the Sox and they certainly wouldn't try to extend a catcher into his late 30's. The Sox have never had a contract over what Abreu got and that was because he was 27 when they got him. There are those who say Sox management is cheap and that's true to some extent because being cheap is smart business money wise but in the MLB dumb contracts are the norm,trading good years for bad years at the end of the contract. Signing a catcher, a highly physically demanding position, to such a contract and getting nothing but reclining years is out of the question for the Sox. But someone will do it. That's a fair counterpoint, but what are the options for this team? If they don't either catch fire like they did in April or make some difficult decisions to compete, they might as well just sell everything off like many on here have suggested. I'd rather see the White Sox trade from a position of strength to turn a weakness into a strength and hopefully turn a middle of the pack team into a much more formidable contender. Yes, you only get two years guaranteed out of him, but the White Sox are going to have to make a lot of hard decisions in 2017 as it stands. Either they're going to tear everything down at that point, or they're going to spend a lot of money to extend their competitive window.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 11:28 PM) I might have to take back my compliment about you making sense if you think the team that trades for Lucroy is getting 5 or 6 years from him. They get the rest of this year and next and that's it. There's an opportunity to extend him as well. He has 5-6 years of good performance left, and the team that trades for him has 2 of those years and the highest probability of getting the rest.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 10:36 PM) That's false equivalence. He's under contract for this year & next (age 30-31). Obviously you have to factor in costs, not to mention whether there's a decline in productivity (very normal after that age). So the way you frame the comparison IMO is misleading. Analogy is absolutely true. Trading many years of upside to get a little tiny bit better today with a guy who has peaked career wise. Do these trades enough times and you continue to be mediocre or below mediocre for a long long time. You're overvaluing his potential in the hopes of getting a cost controlled, top end talent, which is fair, but you're not acknowledging that, best case scenario, you're flipping a coin in hopes of getting it. Lucroy is an all-star, a premium bat at a premium defensive position, and cost controlled for this year and next. It's not like we're talking about one of the plethora of corner OFs whose names have thrown out over the past couple of years, this is a catcher who provides an impact bat, and likely will for 5-6 years. It's more like trading a 75 cent option that you hope goes to 150 cents in exchange for 120 cents, if you want to use that type of analogy.

QUOTE (AJUribe @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) Anderson, Melky, and Eaton are the only players that can hit. Abrue brings no energy, frazier hits homers off garbage pitchers but can't put a ball in play off any pitcher of decent quality. Can't win with 2 black holes at 3-4. You call 2-4 with 2 doubles a black hole? Give me that black hole any day of the week.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 08:36 PM) I don't think so. We're pretty entrenched in the +- 2 games over .500 type of team. There's a huge gap between our statistics versus the teams that are solidly in the playoffs. We have got to stop trading 80 cents today that will likely be 120 cents but could be 150 cents for 100 cents. Fulmer is a maybe starter who has an absolute ceiling of a #1 starter and a floor of a middle reliever. Lucroy is an all-star catcher who likely has 5-6 good years left in him. Your analogy doesn't add up.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 07:04 PM) I like the idea of LuCroy but the Sox need more than just a catcher to become contenders so using the Sox best asset (Fulmer) to acquire LuCroy makes little sense. It's not like the Sox are loaded with assets for trade to fix the holes in the pen, DH and CF. There are internal options to deal with DH and CF. That will require some breaks in the White Sox favor, but every team needs that to get to the postseason. This move would improve the team for this year and next and gives the team that whole time to negotiate an extension with him.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 07:01 PM) Haven't you seen our record against divisional opponents not named Minnesota? It's 6-18 So improving the team won't improve that?

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) We are within 1 game of being behind 7 teams for the wild card. Another losing streak and the team is finished. Another winning streak and they could be on top of the division again. That's not really a good argument against doing something to improve the team. QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 06:35 PM) They could fix catcher defense much cheaper than Lucroy will cost. Another short term focused move so people can howl at the moon...no thanks. Lucroy fixes catcher defense and catcher offense. He's a 3 or 4 hitter playing a premium defensive position, and therefore worth giving up something valuable like Fulmer.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 04:41 PM) Abreu should be batting fifth or sixth until he starts hitting like a three or four again. Abreu has a .312/.357/.493 slash line since June 1. How is that not a 3 hitter?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 05:38 PM) The odds of the Sox making the playoffs this year are either slim or none. Don't trade anybody! Mark Would those odds not improve tremendously with the addition of Lucroy?

From the glass half full perspective, that means based on historical results, the White Sox have a much better chance of winning the next 5 games, as they are 42-35 in games following a game day.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jul 16, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) No interest in trading Fulmer and I don't think we have enough to get Lucroy without him. Of course I'd love him but we just have nothing to trade for any top flight guys sadly. You just named the trade chip that could bring him in, and if the White Sox truly are in year 2 of a 3 year competitive window, the best way Fulmer can help that is in a trade.

The White Sox are attempting to make the postseason this year and have publicly stated that they are in the middle of what they consider to be a 3 year window to compete for the playoffs. As of today, the most easily identifiable weakness on the team is the offense, specifically a lack of consistent production, something that could be most easily solved by the addition of a highly productive bat. The spots on the team that are easily upgraded at this point are CF, DH, and C, where Hahn's offseason "trade defense for offense" experiment has failed miserably and the White Sox have experienced a plethora of injuries. For all these reasons, the White Sox should pursue Jonathan Lucroy. He is a middle of the order bat at a premium defensive position where the White Sox need an upgrade. The price will be steep, but the players the White Sox would potentially give up are not likely to help in the competitive window the team has stated they wish to maintain, such as Carson Fulmer, Spencer Adams, Jake Peter, Trey Michelewski, etc. Meanwhile, a lineup with Lucroy could provide the run support the pitching staff needs, regardless of whether Abreu and Frazier turn their seasons around. This lineup looks like a playoff lineup to me: SS Anderson RF Eaton C Lucroy 1B Abreu 3B Frazier LF Cabrera DH Morneau/trade if he doesn't work out 2B Lawrie CF Jackson Lucroy would also provide a defensive upgrade at one of the most important defensive positions, and is also one of the best pitch framers in the game according to the numbers for those who believe in those statistics. If there was a move that would put this team over the top and into the playoffs, this is the move.

If you're going for a catcher, go Lucroy.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 07:55 PM) 3-4 now. 2 singles and homer Current A+ OPS: 1.800

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 09:59 PM) If the Pomeranz trade is any indication of where the trade market is at, I am good with standing pat. That's where the starting pitching market is, but everyone knew that. In fact, that trade makes me think the White Sox could get Lucroy with a package that includes Fulmer.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 09:17 PM) Cause I fell for it last year. Exact same situation. Sox went completely in the tank right after the break. This team doesn't have what it takes and I can see that clearly. SELL. Last year's team was 4 games under .500 going into the break and never seemed to get over a rough start. This year's team will either be 2 or 4 games over .500 going into the break and has already overcome quite a bit of adversity that would have sunk a team like the 2015 squad. Offensively, their two biggest bats have severely underperformed, and they've had quite a few injuries that have eaten away at depth. Not to mention they've pulled themselves out of that horrible tailspin they were in quite nicely, which would've turned into a death spiral for a team like last year's squad. One highly effective run producing bat is just about all this team is missing to be competitive with anyone in the league. Getting that bat at a premium defensive position like catcher, and having that catcher also be a premium defender, would be a huge boost to a team like this one, and could be just what the team needs to get in the playoffs and maybe even make a deep run. Send them Fulmer and anything else short of Collins that it takes to get him here, and see what happens. I certainly have a lot more hope for what this team can accomplish in the second half as opposed to last year's team.

Why are people suggesting selling when this team is over .500 going into the break instead of talking about what it would take to get the one player on the market who would be a substantive and worthwhile upgrade (Jonathan Lucroy)?

Timmay!