Middle Buffalo

The closest comparison might end up being the Duke Lacrosse case. The only thing we know for sure is that Kane put himself in position to be accused. His actions after that are unknown. Did he actually have any sexual contact? We don't know. Interesting soxtalk throwback thread - http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/lofiversion/...php?t48467.html

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) He squandered YEARS of amazing defenses and special teams that were superbowl quality. He's not 100% to blame, but he gets the majority of it in my book. Defensive Ranking Year - Points - Yards 2014 - 31st - 30th 2013 - 30th - 30th 2012 - 3rd - 5th (10-6 team record - Lovie fired) 2011 - 14th - 17th 2010 - 4th - 9th (lost in conf final) 2009 - 21st - 17th Yep, YEARS of amazing defense and special teams squandered. You're correct, though. He does get the majority of blame in your book.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) I disagree about Palmer. He was a top 5 QB most years when he was in Cincy and iirc he wasnt run out of Cncy, he refused to play for them and retired until they traded him to the Raiders, who are the Raiders. http://www.nfl.com/player/carsonpalmer/2505245/profile His turnovers (INTs & fumbles lost) have been pretty high his entire career, and that's always the complaint about Cutler. I did forget the details of his departure from Cincy, though.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) I watch a ton of football (when i watch...Bears are just one of the many games I'm watching) and Flacco and Eli at times are horrible. I've said many times, Luck can be horrible (and people are seeing it this year). Would I take Luck over Cutler, no brainer. Do I take Flacco over Jay...I'm not sure. I do take Eli over Jay though (but not by a ton). When it comes to the non top 3 QB's (4 including Luck...who might be getting bashed but if I were building a franchise today, he'd be my 2nd pick...behind Rodgers). You have a very long list of guys who are good, but not great, and who can win on the right teams. Bears fans blow up Jay for what he is, but don't pay attention to what a lot of other QB's do. We expected him to be Rodgers, he isn't, but we think he's a lot worse then he actually is. And I consistently said something similar about Romo (who is better then Jay, but suffered / struggled through some of the same issues Jay did before finally getting a good oline and above average D). We all forget how good Jay was when our D was good (his record was extremely strong and he led us to an NFC championship game). Fact of the matter we constructed pretty s***ty teams and our had horrid coaches during a lot of the tenure. Jay was overrated for a long time, now he is severely underrated. He fits squarely in that 7 - 14 mold as a QB and where he rates their depends on the players around him and the quality of the team around him. ^This is basically my point. All QBs throw bad INTs at terrible times. (Is there ever a good time?) PManning has two pick 6s this year. He's also not considered to be great in big games throughout his career. Since the beginning of last year, Luck leads all QBs in turnovers. EManning had terrible mental mistakes that probably cost his team two wins this year. He faced similar body language criticism as Cutler prior to winning. And if not for two historically great catches, he could easily be winless in Super Bowls. Pretty sure the Giants barely qualified both times, too. Carson Palmer was considered a flop as the number one overall pick. He was run out of Cincy. He was dumped by Oakland. Now he's 15-2 in his last 17 starts. Incidentally, he threw a terrible INT right before the half last week that could have cut the Bears deficit to four before halftime (or tied the game if they had capitalized on the muffed punt). Alex Smith threw an equally bad INT before half time of the Thursday night game the week before that helped Denver get back into the game. The list goes on. I don't think Cutler is great. He's overpaid. But, he's way better than most guys out there. And, if you look at the list of QBs who have started in the super bowl, there are quite a few who are not anywhere near elite. Mark Rypien. Neil ODonnell. Stan Humphries. Rex Grossman. David Woodley. Tony Eason. Doug Williams. Ron Jawlrski. Vince Ferragamo. Jim Plunkett. Craig Morton. Jim McMahon. Etc. http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/9/24...k-bears-history

In season now, Bears, Sox, and Illini. No real reason for me to follow sports right now. And I don't usually get invested in NHL and NBA until January.

So, the criticism of Cutler usually centers around interceptions. I'm not a Cutler apologist (in fact, I'm never comfortable with him in the game), but I believe most of the angst related to Cutler is anecdotal. We're Bears fans, so we live and die with every game. Ever mistake is magnified. Successes are mere interludes between mistakes. And if we're not Bears fans, then we take joy in the misery that happens with Jay under center. However, I feel like, with few exceptions, there really aren't many significantly better options at QB available. People like to point out Cutler's salary, but I think that just comes with the the position. If we don't pay him, we will have to allot a similar portion of our cap to his replacement. And, unless we stumble into Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady in the draft, how much better off would we really be without Jay. I did a little research to compare Cutler with his contemporaries, some HOFs, and a few QBs who made it to Super Bowls and others who are just household names. Specifically, I'm comparing TD/INT ratios. Since I'm aware that the game has evolved, and the claim for the poor TD/INT ratios put up in earlier eras would be that they threw the ball downfield more in the past, I included some YPA data for Jay and some of the old timers. Keep in mind that I'm not saying Jay is as good as some of the HOF QBs on the list, but I think it's interesting to looks at them statistically. I also find the numbers of some of his critics in the media (Dilfer, Jaws, Bradshaw, Aikman, et al) to be a little surprising considering how much they like to talk about ball security and decision making. Anyway, take a look. Cutler TD/INT 1.40 - YPA 7.2 Super Bowl QBs Favre 1.51 - 7.1 Jaworski 1.09 - 6.8 Brad Johnson 1.36 Kelly 1.35 - 7.4 Marino 1.67 - 7.3 McNair 1.46 Montana 1.96 - 7.5 McMahon 1.11 Plunkett 0.83. - 7.0 PSimms 1.27 - 7.2 Stabler 0.87 - 7.4 Staubach 1.40 - 7.7 Tarkenton 1.29 - 7.3 Theisman 1.16 - 7.0 Namath 0.79 - 7.4 Warner 1.63 - 7.9 Young 2.17 - 8.0 Hasselbeck 1.37 Bradshaw 1.01 - 7.2 Aikman 1.17 - 7.0 Bledsoe 1.22 Dilfer 0.88 Esiason 1.34 - 7.3 Elway 1.33 - 7.1 Culpepper 1.41 Brunell 1.69 Moon 1.25 - 7.2 JGeorge 1.36 McNabb 2.0 Contemporaries Luck 1.96 Palmer 1.48 Eli Manning 1.41 Rivers 2.05 Roethlisberger 1.93 CNewton 1.51 Dalton 1.58 Flacco 1.61 Kaepernick 2.48 JMcCown 1.03 Romo 2.19 Ryan 1.98 ASmith 1.66 Vick 1.50

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 20, 2015 -> 08:25 PM) Yeah I was hoping he just got tired. I'd love to hear that he played poorly because he got tired.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 20, 2015 -> 12:02 PM) Another long pass with no effort to locate the ball. Donatell has got to clean this s*** up. It's unbelievable. They have good coverage, but they don't try to locate the ball. Gotta be a concussion for cutler that they don't want to report. Banged his head pretty hard on the tackle attempt.

That's just Joe Maddon keeping things loose in the clubhouse.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 16, 2015 -> 01:10 PM) Since the deadline he is 1-8 with a 9.24 ERA, in 9 starts. That gets a lot of pitchers a new line of work. If you don't want to give him any blame, giving anyone any blame is silly. I've heard Bruce Levine and a few others speculate that the reason for Samardija's decline after the trade deadline was his disappointment at not being traded to a contender. That excuses the player and blames the organization - which isn't surprising coming from a Cubs cheerleader. However, it ignores that the Sox got hot at the wrong time and were a possible contender themselves. I don't consider Samardija to be anything more than a .500 pitcher who can eat innings. There's value in that, but not 4/$80 million worth. Make him the QO. If he accepts and the Sox get stuck with him, slot him in at fourth in the rotation.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 08:47 PM) Buck knew about the fix so that's why he's banned. Curious...did anyone on the Reds know Pete was gambling on games? Why hasn't that question ever been raised? I'd never thought of that about Pete's teammates, but as I said in the past about steroids, they knew. I'm certain of it just based on my experience in the workplace. There are always people who have info, and they're usually pretty ready to gossip. I doubt an MLB clubhouse is any different than most of our workplaces.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) Theres a pretty nice statue of one right outside the stadium. More than one, in fact. And others around town.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 12:09 PM) I'd rather not win a cup than have a rapist on my favorite team. I don't think anyone wants a "rapist" on the team. He wouldn't be the first Hawks player or player from any of our favorite teams to be a serial philanderer, though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 07:02 AM) If I owned the Blackhawks, I would be looking to trade Patrick Kane. Though I said the same thing years ago too, and he seemed to clean himself up for a couple of years before this latest incident. Bottom line, as an owner, the last thing in the world I want to hear is "Blackhawks star accused of ...." I would be trying to get fair value for him. Devil's advocate - Let's say the girl in question is making it up. What did Kane do wrong? Have a one night stand? I'm not defending him, either. I think the way athletes and entertainers use women is pretty bad. It's also really dumb for them to put themselves in a situation where they might be accused of something by someone they don't really know. But, I don't think one night stands are uncommon in sports, so I don't see why the Hawks would have a higher standard for Kane in this regard than they would for any of his teammates.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 06:42 PM) Don't sweat this. I don't. I'm pretty sure the 62% - 38% is close to the breakdown of Cubs fans and Sox fans in the city. Just voting the party line.

ESPN Chicago poll of best pitcher in Chicago (as of 2 minutes ago): Jake Arrietta - 62% Chris Sale - 38% Not sure I agree with that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 06:58 AM) Yes, because as an Admin, I don't start any threads... Right. 1)Create silly thread. 2)Post in thread frequently. 3)Criticize others for posting in thread.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) Wanting to talk about the Cubs on a board for the White Sox seems pretty silly to me. ...says the guy who started the 2015 & 2013 Cubs Catch-All threads.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 24, 2015 -> 03:00 PM) Cubs fans have actually been less annoying than the Chicago media so far this year. The Cubs fans in the media have been horrible. A good number of my friends are Cubs fans, and for the most part they are just that - Cubs fans, not Sox haters. So, for them, Im not unhappy if the Cubs have success. But, man, is the media annoying. For comparison, the Sox were 71-55 in 2012 on this date, and I don't remember guys in the media doing quite as much cheerleading.

I find it incredibly scary to sit in the seats close to the dugout. Even if you're paying attention, sometimes you can't see the ball right away because of the angle or if there are too many white shirts on the people on the opposite side of the field.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 24, 2015 -> 06:17 AM) I have a feeling if the preseason is reduced, then there will be a season in which there are a lot of early season injuries and everyone will say "See? If you dont play these preseason games, then you dont get your body ready for the season" Colleges don't have preseason games, and I don't think there's a significantly larger percentage of injuries early in the season. But, you're correct. That is the first thing people would say if there was a significant injury in the first game. Players are constantly contradicting themselves when it comes to injuries. The same guys that say they'd have to be dragged off the field or that they grab another body part to mask getting their bell rung (possible concussion), argue that the NFL doesn't care about them.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 24, 2015 -> 06:25 AM) They make money on these preseason games. They aren't going away unless they are turned into regular season games. I know the players don't get regular game checks for the preseason, so the owners make a lot of money on these games.

I don't really understand why Rovell thought the Sox report was even worthy of posting. What's his point? Like has been pointed out, scouts are routinely wrong. Just look at any draft in any sport.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 21, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) Harry Volkman, whoosh, Tom Skilling before Tom Skilling dead at 89. He came to my grammar school back in the day to talk about weather. Tom Skilling came to mine. I remember him being very sweaty. Catholic school - no a/c. RIP Harry.

Tickets sold does not equal people who are actually at the game.