Balta1701

I can’t think of a match who could afford him either, but if they are a 4th place team for the next couple years, we will probably be talking about that more seriously in 24 and 25.

Somewhere in there it becomes feasible to discuss Luis Robert.

I would note that the backup options in the case that either Sosa or Colas weren’t ready…were terrible. Eloy and Sheets in RF were things we insisted should never happen again. Elvis Andrus as the everyday 2b? No backup CF on the roster? These were just bad plans. If you’re going to rely on aggressively promoted rookies, you better have several good backup plans.

Tony LaRussa literally said “you’re going to love Joe Kelly”.

Alternatively, you also need to give guys who are coming up enough time to get through their struggles, as well as the tools to get better. For many players, that can be a year or even a couple years of coaching. If you're bringing up several guys from AA ball and needing them to be impact players right away in order to compete, the odds are not in your favor.

I picked those guys because I thought that was exactly what they did with them, write them off and then decide that its no big loss if they trade them. Semien? Just a utility guy, no big future. Bassitt? Only has a fastball, probably a bullpen guy. Narvaez - bad defensively, will clearly never learn.

Fanbase? Hell, the GM and coaching staff do it too.

A new GM will get to choose their own manager eventually. If I took the job right now, there's a good chance I'll keep Grifol around at least for next year because I'll want to get started on fixing other things before I worry about a search for a new manager.

Robert is so valuable that it's hard to see the White Sox getting anyone to offer a fair return for him. 4.5 years of control for an all star is just nuts. Personally, I think the only real solution to getting out of the hole the White Sox are in is to tear it down at least to the Cease level, because their system is so weak that they cannot replace the pieces (G) that they are losing to FA. The only way they're going to make a dent in the next 2 years is to make use of assets like Cease to fill holes. But, I doubt the White Sox will do anything other than play for 2nd place in a weak central division. Hell, I'll be surprised if they actually move anyone, since doing so is the right decision.

He's been an "elite" bullpen arm with the rays in part because of a .172 BABIP and a 84% LOB rate. These numbers are unlikely to continue. However, his K-rate with the Rays shot back up to where it was in 2022. His walk rate dropped back to where it was in 2021, and his fastball has picked up 0.8 mph since he left the White Sox, so some fraction of this is sustainable as him being a good and useful reliever.

I’d still guess you can get someone to take on a couple million on Lynn’s contract. An experienced pitcher at the back of your rotation is almost always better down the stretch than calling up your eighth starter, and there are definitely teams at that point right now.

The biggest risk now is that the Twins lose a couple in a row, the White Sox stay in 4th place, but they get to like 3 games back and Hahn gives another “yes we are right where we need to be” comment and adds pieces rather than subtracting. So please, tell everyone this is happening.

The only way Clevinger is gone is if he’s cut.

With the way that option is structured you pretty much only use it if you’re confident he won’t be pitching next year. If the elbow problem this year drags on, and he misses a lot of second half time, that’s when you’d think about it, if that were the only thing going on.

Yikes

If we were being harsh, he has a known elbow issue that has flared up the last two seasons already. There is a decent risk of him missing the entire season, and right now you have to say it seems likely he will miss a month somewhere in 2024. If he has any setbacks in the second half of 2023, you would definitely consider using that option if it weren’t for the other things going on.

His elbow is apparently a long term concern, we learned that last year. I believe he is actually pitching through a long term elbow injury. That’s why they were ultra cautious with him and gave him months of true rehab after he was cancer free. Bringing him back only weeks after chemo with little actual game experience would be nearly criminal, you’d be needlessly risking that elbow flaring up.

If a desired prospect return requires another team making a clear mistake; then they probably won’t do it and it won’t be worth thinking about. The Orioles are a super young team with a deep system that is competing for a wild card. If they make trades, it should always be for guys that help them over several years, or it should only feature spare parts, not their top guys. It would be super dumb of a GM to dismantle his system by trading for guys who are expensive and who aren’t controlled (Cough Cough Cough). Those moves destroy both your depth and your financial flexibility, they are moves that bad GMs make. Not to mention — what other valuable player do the White Sox have they can package with Giolito? Kelly or Lopez? Burger? If they aren’t moving Cease, they don’t have anything that is worth a top 100 prospect even as a package unless a team dramatically overpays.

The other comparison from last year is Jose Quintana. He had an ERA of 3.50 in the first half and his peripherals supported a good performance. He was cheap, and under control for 2 months. The return in this trade was Malcom Nunez, who was top 10 and/or top 20 in the Fangraphs and MLB.com lists of Cardinals prospects (therefore well outside the top 100) and Johan Oviedo, who was a top 10 prospect in the Cardinals system but who had some time spent struggling in the Cardinals rotation and been moved to the bullpen. He's back starting for the Pirates now. Basically, that deal was two "top-10 in the Cardinals system" guys for Quintana, one of whom was big league ready. Didn't return a top 100 prospect, but would return 2 guys who are probably top-10 in the White Sox system or at least comparable to that level. This is, to me, probably comparable value to what you'd expect for 2 months of Giolito, unless the market is much stronger than it was last year.

I don't care if he's blocked...Ortiz is currently #65 on the MLB.com rankings. You just don't get that kind of return for a good starting pitcher with 2 months of control. The Orioles definitely would make sense for the White Sox as a trading partner, they have top flight position players who could help the White Sox, but the O's shouldn't be trading for guys like Giolito unless they get them cheaply. They should be trading for guys like Cease, and that matchup works - 2 of the Orioles top prospects for Cease is a quality start to a deal.

So only one starting pitcher has a win in the last 3 years? Somehow I’m not interpreting this correctly.

If I counted right, this is the 10th time this season where the White Sox have been 13 games below .500, out of 87 games. I count 17 times when they’ve been 12 games under. One might start thinking they are about this bad.

Apropos of nothing, how weird does it seem for a team to have an Offday on July 3? Like; this is holiday week money.

If you want an in depth version of the history of this guy and this thing, the New Yorker article was excellent. https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen