Balta1701

In the Past 24 Hours, the White Sox won 1 game and Luis Robert made the all star team and theres so much excitement among a group of the most loyal white Sox fans that no one has bothered to make a thread about either. Obviously we need to stay the course, it’s the best way to make there be no fans left. Then we can finally move the team.

Let’s never forget that a Kopech who is often injured and who struggles with his command was one of the likely results of how the White Sox treated him. Guy hasn’t pitched competitively in 2 and a half years. The last time he was out, he struggled with command until July, it took him nearly 100 straight innings as a starter to find good control. In June he had a game where he walked 6 I think, then he cut that walk rate a ton in July. This profile says the guy needs innings, repetition, in a lower stress setting like AAA. if he doesn’t get them, the risk is he will struggle with control and with health, but hey maybe you get that precious middle relief. And now? He struggles with exactly those things, who could ever have seen that coming? When you make a lot of decisions that could sacrifice 2023 to make your 2021 team better, you can’t be all that surprised when some of those moves turn out to actually hurt your 2023 team.

While I get the concept…they don’t have the resources to sign a $20 million salary pitcher this offseason. They have 2 starters under contract and a team 13 games below .500. Because of salary increases already on the books, they have about $30 to $40 million to spend to get back to this years’ payroll. If they just wanted to keep this years roster together, they’d have to increase payroll compared to 2023. They just don’t have money for Giolito.

I don’t think the Edsel was a useful marketing tool liked because management didn’t feel they should have to take questions.

I think it’s quite obvious that Tony was key in the signing of Joe Kelly, they literally told us that. I’d try to track down the tweets on that but well, Twitter. Tony was probably involved heavily in the Leury signing. The other big moves that offseason were picking up Kimbrel’s deal and moving him for Pollock, letting Rodon walk, signing Graveman, and the desperation signing of Cueto after Lynn got hurt and they realized they had no backup plans. Graveman - that’s a classic Hahn signing. Kimbrel? That sure seemed like Hahn trying to cover up his mistake. But, these signings hurt but they didn’t kill. You can’t look at the white Sox and say “this one deal is the biggest problem”, this situation is the result of issues and failures going back to 2017 and even before. Bad drafting, failure to use the international market effectively, overspending on bullpens, failure to develop depth, compounded by individual moves that were either awful at the time or that got bad over time. Tony LaRussa didn’t draft Crochet and then bury him in the bullpen so they have no starting depth. Maybe Tony LaRussa put Kopech in the pen so his arm isn’t conditioned, but that sure is consistent with Hahn’s moves. Tony LaRussa didn’t fail to use international money. Tony LaRussa didn’t draft Vaughn and Madrigal, and he didn’t get nothing else out of those drafts.

The last time he said this about Anderson and the leadoff spot he moved him two days later.

I cant say for sure they’re losing money, but boy, with this payroll and this low of attendance there’s no way they’re making the kind of money they want to bring in.

Both of these guys are top 65 prospects right now on MLB.com. That’s more than Giolito is worth with only 2 months of control. They could be key pieces of a deal for Cease.

Apparently Ted Turner went 0-1 as manager.

2013 me says “welcome!”

Naw, they’re worse at retooling on the fly, so we will definitely do that.

They released him last year. The White Sox claimed him then re-signed him for an extra $3 million.

I love these “this part of the schedule is super weak” and “here’s our chance to make a move” threads. Literally none of them have worked! What a great summary of the Hahn plan.

Maybe the problem isn’t pride, maybe it’s the team that was put together. This Medina is striking out 8 per 9 innings so he has decent stuff, but he’s walking 5 per 9 innings. To beat him you have to be patient and take your walks. You have to be smart. The White Sox players have been coached since they started in this org to swing harder if they’re struggling, to get more aggressive as the solution to problems. They avoid bringing in guys like Nimmo who take a ton of walks because they’re effective and that makes them too expensive. As a team they have been constructed to struggle against youngsters who are wild. And literally no one thinks Banks should be a long term starting option. You could ask me or you to go out there on the mound and no matter how much pride we have, we will struggle because we can’t possibly do what is asked of us, we can’t be expected to be a 6th starter, so maybe we should blame The guy who didn’t bring one in. Maybe they have plenty of pride and they’re doing the best they can at being themselves. Maybe we are asking guys to do things they can’t do. Maybe we should blame the guy who picks players and who decides on the coaching staff and overall philosophy, and who leaves all these holes and weaknesses.

I know it’s the more likely route. It’s also the route Rick Hahn has been the absolute worst at. That’s how we got 2015 and 2016, traded away 2 MVP candidates, gave contracts to guys like Austin Jackson and Melky Cabrera, drafted relievers with our first round picks. Every year the White Sox tried to do that set them back 2 years. The idea of Hahn doing this again should be nightmare fuel.

Are you willing to trust Rick Hahn trying again to turn a 4th place team into a contender on the fly, by trading away minor leaguers and making dumpster diving signings of veterans?

Yes I would say there is a very good chance this is correct. Look at the ticket sales and interest that this organization got after 2005 - they averaged 36,511 a game! That's almost twice what they're averaging now! Imagine the TV dollars that had to come with that, with people actually tuning in. And since the Reinsdorfs own a lot of the parking area, that's pure profit for them, rather than the half empty lots you find today. He might not keep up those same numbers, and eventually they'd have to rebuild, but you can regularly see other franchises like this who are very successful. The Phillies are my favorite example - won the 2008 World Series, attendance spike up to 44,000 a game. Had to rebuild, by 2017 were down to a very WhiteSox like 24000 a game. Signed Harper, big attendance spike. Went to the World Series last year, back up to 39,000 a game. This is normal for franchises that are regularly competitive, they are super profitable because they pack their park, they get eyes tuning in, they sell big endorsement and ad deals, etc. Aside from the Mets and maybe the Padres, teams like this are raking in money, and they're getting huge spikes in their franchise value on top of it. Jerry Reinsdorf is literally watching his franchise wither away in front of him. Excluding COVID weirdness, he's going to go a decade at or near the bottom 1/3 of the league in attendance. People aren't interested in his franchise, they're finding other things of interest because the White Sox are regularly so bad. The franchise value is hurt, the revenue state is poor, all because of the decisions him and his top staff are making. When it really hits the fan is going to be 2029/2030 when their sweetheart deal for the stadium expires, and you wind up with the White Sox wanting a new stadium and them being laughed out of Springfield by the state legislature.

I struggle to believe that Jerry is losing patience with Hahn, I really think there's a cadre of yes-men who keep telling the boss he's doing a great job. However, I will continue to note that it is possible to find GMs who do better than this even in the White Sox's organization. Kenny Williams, for example, was better than this. He wasn't the best GM in the world, but he was better than where we are now. Just an improvement could be enough to turn this team from a flop to a team regularly making playoff appearances. It is possible that a move that appears to be lateral or not an improvement on paper will actually be better than this. It cannot hurt to try.

I remember that in the final deal the As got back big league ready young pitching and the White Sox had literally zero of that in their entire organization?

being put in the bullpen for 2021.

I believe White Sox fans have long been the sort who don’t care for stuff like That unless there is a winning team on the field. They have several feel good stories this year and a dramatic attendance drop. Hahnball just doesn’t sell tickets, you actually have to have a competitive team.

Yes, this would be their 8th time being 13 games under .500 this season, and the et have been 14 below twice.