Balta1701

I am officially tired of hearing how photographs are "circumstantial evidence".

Photographs and statements from doctors are not considered circumstantial evidence by a court of law. Furthermore, in addition to photographs, circumstantial evidence can be admissible and can support that evidence. MLB specifically has the authority to act and suspend a player regardless of the determination of the legal system. This is 100% explicit in the Domestic Violence Agreement. Baseball is a business. They have rights to protect their business from employing people who abuse women and children that go beyond the requirements for the legal system. Now please stop making me google this.

If the 2020 White Sox signed a guy to a minimum contract who was previously a top 10 prospect in baseball, who had 2 years of arb-eligibility remaining, and who had put up 11.8 WAR in 5 seasons and a .699 OPS the previous year while playing solid defense, I'd have probably called that the best signing of the offseason if there wasn't any other issues.

“Here are photos. The metadata on them will give dates and geotag them to a house owned by Clevinger. I went to a doctor afterwards you can talk to them here, here’s my mothers number I confided in her afterwards, here are the names of three friends I told about what happened, here’s the receipts for the date I contacted a lawyer, here’s my therapist’s information I give permission for them to share details with you, and here’s the name of two of his ex girlfriends you can try to contact them also.” Soxtalk: “how will we ever find corroborating evidence this is the definition of a he said she said case.”

Evidence like photos?

Well as long as you are confident you know all the details of this case you can be fully clear in judging that this victim doesn’t meet your standards and calling out people like me who say they won’t make that determination.

Do the police always help? Are there people who might have already lost confidence in the police? Maybe they reported something before and the police did nothing and the person just got more violent afterwards?

Ongoing danger to onesself or the child from the aggressor?

No. Because the salaries for Robert, Moncada, Cease, Kopech, Eloy, Bummer, and Anderson will all go up by several million each. Moncada, for example, goes from $19 million to $25 million. Cease will be arb 2, he could go from $6 million to $10 million if he’s as good as last year. Also keep in mind that they backloaded Benintendi’s deal and moved some of Clevingers money to a buyout paid at the end of the year Graveman is also under contract for 2024 for $8 million again. If the White Sox have a payroll in 2024 comparable to this year, they will have something like $20 million total to replace both Giolito and Clevinger, as well as find bullpen depth and fill any other holes they have. Give or take the arbitration numbers for people and what they do at the deadline. If the payroll doesn’t go up, this will be even tougher than this year.

In 2016 he won a title and was the NL All Star Starter. In 2017, his numbers were a little worse, but he was still an average player. 2.2 WAR, so literally "average starter". .722 OPS. In 2018, his offense was falling off some but his defense continued to be fine. His OPS dropped to .657 on the season. He was put on administrative leave near the end of the season. Overall though, he was a 2.6 WAR player that year, better than the year before overall. He started 2019 suspended, came back, and put up a 0.8 fWAR season in 241 plate appearances. .699 OPS. He was sent to AAA mid-season. He was designated for assignment at the end of the year and no one picked him up. Looking at the advance stats, he was actually better than I thought the last few years, I remember hearing about how his offense never blossomed, but he remained an average player and could have totally continued being a MLB level shortstop based on his performance alone. I'd have to conclude the reason he's playing in Korea now is the domestic violence suspension and no one wanting to sign him because of it.

You certainly can. Guys like Rodon, Martin Perez occasionally sign for like $5 million or less. The problem is you can't count on that kind of luck to fill out an entire rotation. If you sign one of those guys to be your 6th starter, that's fine on a competitive team, and if they break out - hooray, look at Rodon in 2021. However, you can't count on that kind of luck to fill out your entire lineup. Somewhere in there you need additional cheap talent to come out of your system, otherwise you are filling your entire roster with Clevinger like guys who you are hoping have comeback years. If I write down all the positions you opened after 2025 - 3 starting pitchers, closer, 3b, SS, and try to fill them with average free agents, you wind up with a $200+ million payroll really quick without something from your system.

There are so few cases of this happening in baseball over the ~8 seasons of the domestic violence policy that it is hard to make an educated guess about how that will affect baseball's decision making. However, in part based on the "some unknown reason" language you chose I do want to note and stress that different people respond to trauma differently and that one person filing things in a different way from others shouldn't be taken to indicate really anything about the validity of the accusation. You can come up with lots of justifications for why a person would act like that. It is also possible that there were other steps taken that we don't know about yet, baseball beat writers in Chicago aren't necessarily the best criminal investigative reporters. What we know is that: 1. Somehow this was reported to the Padres last year and the Padres reported it to MLB. MLB appears to have followed appropriate procedures as spelled out in their domestic violence agreement, opening an investigation while retaining privacy. 2. The White Sox signed Clevinger without ever being informed by the league. This was again the written policy of the league. 3. The victim chose to go public a week ago including their photographs.

There has been no real discussion of it by any reputable source in the couple hours since it was posted.

Logistically, the idea of moving an extra 20k people into and out of downtown 81 times a year has always struck me as challenging. You can get away with much larger crowds for 9 football games because 8 of them are on Sundays, but trying this during evening traffic will leave a bad taste for everyone unless there’s a serious rethink of moving people into that area.

“Since this month has been a dumpster fire for this team, we need to do something to make people feel positive again. I think it’s about time we announce the extension and salary raise for Rick Hahn.” - White Sox ownership.

That was extended sequences of paid administrative leave. Eventually the arbitrator just said “ok don’t pay him for that time but it counts as his suspension so he’s free as soon as I cancel the rest”

Paid administrative leave should be possible as long as there is an active investigation. I will be confused why if they don’t use that.

Last years number 15 pick is ranked number 98 on this list. Picks 13, 14, and 16 are not currently ranked, and I got lazy and stopped looking at that point. It seems unlikely that the 15th pick in next years draft will make an appearance in rankings by next offseason, not in a place to replace Colas on the list at least. That’s also not a knock on any of them, it’s just a matter of not being highly enough ranked coming into the draft and only a couple months in the low minors, for a high schooler or something like that, that’s no time at all. If that’s going to happen it’s from someone already in the system today.

If they got a good offer for him I wouldn't have been surprised if they moved him, but we've seen how weak the trade market has been this offseason. If teams were paying high prices in trades, there would have been more. Teams are mostly holding onto their prospects, I'd expect the same next offseason as well. If a team needed a shortstop, there were 4 on the free agent market that they didn't have to give up prospects for. I don't think you're going to get nearly as much as you want for him, but I do believe you can get "some amount of talent plus saving his full contract" next offseason. It is my expectation that the White Sox will be in a position where that is something they have to do.

While that's true, do the White Sox have $14 million to spare? We heard all this offseason about moving Hendriks to save the same amount of money and next year has a a very good chance of being tougher, financially. On top of that, he will have 1 year of control, so if they don't move him, they won't ever get anything for him. And they have clearly been whispering unhappiness about him the whole offseason. With a replacement available for him, these are savings the White Sox can get while still getting a small amount of talent back for him, and without seriously hurting their so-called "competitive roster". This is something we are going to hear about all next offseason, starting at the trade deadline if they're out by then.

Yup. We talked about that in the other thread, I am looking at a financial mess next offseason equal to this one if not worse, Anderson is movable to clear payroll, they have made it clear they're not thrilled with him internally based on tons of whispers over the last year, and there's an available replacement.

I'd imagine that's exactly right. I doubt he's going to spend a full year at AA in 2023 and a full year at AAA in 2024 and then not get called up. Far more likely IMO is that he's the opening day shortstop in 2024.

How is that related to Mike Clevinger spitting tobacco juice on an infant?

I really don’t care about the White Sox losing money through this stupidity on their part, I already laughed at the fact that Hahn guaranteed him $4 million against suspension with his stupid buyout and option. I would care more about taking the money from the suspension out of Clevinger’s accounts. He got that contract by keeping an abuse case quiet, a penalty would be nice.