Balta1701

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 09:34 AM) According to SS2k's comments in the other thread, Thome would only waive his no-trade clause back in '05 to go to the Indians, Cubs, or Sox. Being home in Illinois or at his former home in Cleveland seems pretty important to him. I'm sure that he'd love to go back to Cleveland if they remain in contention, but unless he's drastically changed his mind, I don't see him going anywhere else. Plus, I don't see the point in trading a future HOFer who we're getting at a bargain... especially when we're losing Dye and Crede at the end of the year. This lineup is going to be absolutely desperate for power next season. Well, I think the whole point of the concept of this discussion is that maybe Jim would consider doing something other than playing @ home if it helped him get a ring. Yes, he wouldn't be on his way to the Cubs or to the Tribe, but there are several teams, notably Seattle, LAA, and probably a few others, who might really be happy to get their hands on a bat like his, and those teams may have a much bigger chance of getting Jim a ring in the next year or two than we do. The question is Jim's priorities; does he want to stay in Chicago, or does he want a ring? And the whole point of trading Mr. Thome would be to try to fill in those holes for a few years down the road. If we suck next year, Thome is the difference between 60 and 70 wins maybe. In that case, well, screw it, give me whatever talent Jim could bring back in a trade, let him have one last shot at a ring, and maybe we find ourselves in a better spot in 09.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 08:19 AM) plus, it just contributes to Edwards 'two-Americas" but on a grander scale. Those with money can just pay a little extra to offset thier excess, while those just getting by cannot. For the lower to middle class to be carbon neutral, or even to simply reduce, they would have to actually change thier lifestyle and consumption habits, whereas the rich can simply write a check to feel better about themselves. Well, if these things were set up to work correctly, that would actually be an ideal way to do things, because the money that the wealthy would be pumping into the market would be used to develop and activate renewable sources. For example, if a wealthy person is buying carbon offsets, and that money is used to fund the construction of a wind power station, then that benefits everyone because the wealthy person has paid some of the money to offset the additional cost of building that new windmill. If I want to build a wind farm, and 1/2 the cost of it is paid for through money raised by carbon offsets, then that windfarm is a much more practical thing for me to build. There are an awful lot of scenarios where things start off being a product that only the rich can afford, but then with time, the fact that rich people buy items leads to more money being put into the system and the price of that item dropping at the same time as it becomes more effective. Here, of course, I think the problem is likely the way the market was set up originally. It was set up as being too friendly to business. The ideal situation would be to have an organizing body selling off the carbon offsets to business who generate a lot. The way the Europeans did it, if I understand things, they handed out the carbon offsets to businesses for free who were already polluting, so that they could then move to sell them. So it became a method of making more money for polluters rather than a method of reigning in polluters.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 05:37 AM) The Serbia bombings should not have been done IMO. You thought they were OK? It just seems like the "outrage against war" is very selective. Depends more on if your party won or lost the election preceding a conflict . So really, are dems any better then the people you quoted in your post? is that the new dem platform "we're only as bad as the GOP, not worse"? I thought at the time it was very hard to defend the concept behind the bombing campaign in Yugoslavia, especially the Kosovo campaign. I really have trouble with the concept of fighting a war for humanitarian reasons, because war is the ultimate act of inhumanity. It's really hard to find situations so bad that killing a lot of people will improve them. There are, obviously, exceptions. In hindsight, Rwanda would have been a possible place where such an action could have been useful, but only because of the sheer magnitude of the carnage there. It's a rough line to draw, and each situation needs to be evaluated independently, but I think I'm of the belief that the gains that happened in Yugoslavia probably could have been accomplished without all the killing there.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 07:08 PM) And you aren't going to get him for MacDougal. At the very least, it's going to cost Broadway, and even considering Broadway has been thought of as a likely 4th or 5th starter, he has more value as a small piece of a trade than he does in trading for Dukes, because I see it as a near impossibility that Dukes stays in the majors long term. At least some of the rumors I've read recently seem to suggest that there's a good chance Tampa Bay may just outright release him after all of this garbage, and the reason no teams are offering anything useful for him is that they think the DRays may well do that. You may well actually get him right now if you offer up MMac, because the D-Rays could well be happy to just dump their problem on someone else.

Selig may consider suspending the out-for-the-season Jason Giambi if he does not cooperate with George Mitchell's steroid investigation

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 06:52 AM) Speculation in Pitt that Pirates SS Jack Wilson could be available LINK Don't shoot the messager, but we do have a nice history of making trades with these guys. I'm not a particularly big fan of his contract given his numbers. Yes, he's an offensive and defensive upgrade from Uribe, but he also costs more. It could be worth it though if we get some success out of some of our kiddies next year to plug that hole @ SS for 2 years.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 07:43 AM) 3) $7M a year for real good numbers - Thome There is absolutely nothing written anywhere which would require the Sox to send along any of that $20 million they got from the Phillies in any deal sending out Jim. He's paid $14 mil total per year, it's just that 1/2 of that is covered by the money from the Phils. But since Jim proved he could come back from that injury, his value has gone right back up.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 07:45 PM) just for fun....how would this lineup look right now Ringless

If we are rebuilding, and I mean really rebuilding, Kids can play mode, then it makes no sense at all to hold onto Jim Thome for 2 more years, especially with what he could bring back. But the big question would be...would Jim do it?

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) I don't think you should rate someone's speed by how many bases they attempt to steal. Just because Cano doesn't steal a lot doesn't mean he's not fast but rather that he is just ins't good at getting reads and jumps. I think he is pretty fast guy as he does have 4 triples this season. That's how I'll judge his speed. I think that's totally logical...but on the other hand, it's not like there is no benefit to actually stealing bases with your speed, and his seeming lack of skill at stealing bases is something of a knock against him. We may add speed overall with such a deal, but lose some stolen bases at the same time, which is an interesting little change.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) I don't know. As much as I love the idea of two high picks, the likelihood of those two players ever reaching the level that Cano is currently at is highly doubtful. Personally, I'd say that the odds would be in favor of 1 of the 2 reaching that level...but on top of that, this is still the White Sox...what do we usually wind up doing with top prospects? We wind up trading them fairly often. McCarthy, Reed, Gio, etc. Yes, we're altering that strategy a bit these days, but still, a former first round pick putting up decent numbers in the minors has pretty darn good value in trades. And on top of that, if either of them did make it to the big leagues with the Sox, we'd have several years more control over them than we would with Cano. If I thought this team was set for another title run in 08, I might be more willing to grab Cano and lose the draft picks. But unless Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, and a bunch of pitchers develop faster than what we've come to expect, then I think we're probably better off planning for the longer term, because we'll be waiting on those top draft picks from 08 and 09 to come up and fill holes. So as far as I'm concerned, the more of those type of guys we have, the better shape we're in.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:49 PM) Given that both Dye and Iguchi are free agents next year and are both entering the down-slopes of their careers, I'd strongly consider doing that deal. Unfortuntaely, Dye picked the wrong season to put up crap-tacular numbers at the plate. Well, for me, I'd sit here and compare the value of Cano with the value of the value of an additional probably mid to late first round draft pick and a sandwich pick, which is what we're almost certain to get for JD if he walks, and I think that unless we find some major talent for next year somewhere, the 2 draft picks have a much higher value to me.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) Jeez, you guys are ridiculous. Would we rather have Cano than Iguchi? Yes. Is Cano a great hitter? No. Is Cano better than Iguchi? Yes. So then the question is...how much is Cano worth to the White Sox? Is Cano worth Buehrle straight up? Hell no. Is Cano worth Dye straight up? I'd say probably not. So...what else would have to be included to make either deal work that the Yankees have and might be willing to part with?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:32 PM) Nobody's going to trade for a player recovering from a back injury. Still, I could see KW and JR trying to get an arbitrator to cut his salary significantly next year. If he's able to come back from surgery and play at a decent level for the first few months next year, he might be worth something before the deadline next year. It might not be a bad gamble if the price were right (say, $2-3 million). I doubt they'd actually be able to cut his salary that much, but when it comes down to it, Joe's only making $4.94 mil this year, and because of the surgery, he's certainly not comign back and making more than that next year in arbitration.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!!! IT'S DIFFERENT! Once a hypocritical d'bag, always a hypocritical d'bag. Yeah, because nothing at all could have changed between 1992 and 2003. Like, say, the dismantling of Saddam's entire WMD program by the UNSCOM team and the Operation Rommel bombings and its confirmation by UNMOVIC. I really am starting to hate this type of stuff. You're never allowed to reanalyze things 10 years later based on new information, because otherwise we get "oh it's always different!" as a response. Was Al right in 92 back when the speech was made, I believe? I haven't a clue. But to say that you can't have supported stronger containment measures against Saddam back in 92 and opposed the war 11 years later is just silly. Based on this, we should never have invaded Afghanistan, because in 1992, Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban were not a threat to us. Has anyone else considered at all that the complete refusal of one man to ever reevaluate his decisions based on new evidence is in fact one of the biggest reasons why the Middle East is falling apart these days?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) Barry Bonds had an IsoD (OBP - BA) of 107 as a rookie, 68 his second year, 85 his 3rd year and 103 his 4th year. Robinson Cano's have been 23, 23 and 38 over the past 3 years. Barry Bonds had a low OBP because his batting average was below .260, he was still drawing a whole lot of walks but it wasn't showing because he wasn't hitting for particularly good contact. And of course, there are still those pernicious reports, i.e. published in Game of Shadows, that abusing large doses of HGH does have a habit of improving one's eyesight

Oh, MIGUEL Cabrera? I figured this thread was about Melky Cabrera, someone who we might have a shot at. I think the Marlins might trade you their Cabrera if you could go back in time and give them that 2005 World Series win. And you threw in Danks.

Wow, I think we're actually guaranteed to make it through our full lineup 4 times. Does anyone else think it's been a while since that happened?

QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) Am i insane since this team now makes me laugh? If you're not laughing at this team today, you're probably suicidal.

Jerry Crasnick, emphasis his.

QUOTE(TheOcho @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) I just noticed... why the hell is Cintron at SS and Uribe at 2nd... Gameday has Cintron @ 2b and Uribe @ SS?

QUOTE(TheOcho @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) Is Uribe below .200 yet? He needs to go hitless in another 9 at bats for that to happen.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:34 AM) Magglio's backloaded contract kinda sucked. $3.75 million in 2001, and $14 million in 2004. He wasn't worth $14 million at the time and the Sox were screwed with compensation picks because there's no way they could guarantee him 80% of $14 million. The only reason that contract wound up sucking was that Magglio got hurt. If he was healthy, a $14 mil arbitration offer would have been something the Sox would have been more than happy to do, considering that the Tigers paid him $15 mil a year for 5 years that offseason.

I think we should blame Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy for this.