Balta1701

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:36 AM) Rhythm and tempo, that is what Floyd needs...according to Coop. Keep Buehrle around, let Floyd learn from him.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:33 AM) Sun-Times stated that the White Sox watched film of Gavin Floyd all day yesterday and they feel that there was a mechanical issue that they can correct. They got back two major league arms under 25. There are not many of them. I do not believe Copper is the second coming but he got Thorton and Jenks to do something pretty well and he may be able to do it with Floyd. Last night I thought this trade sucked. Now I actually like it I'm nervously excited but trying to avoid being disappointed. It's a complex set of emotions. If they can fix Floyd, they have 2 23-and-under guys who can fit in very nicely at the top of the rotation for the next decade or so. On paper, if you told me I could get 2 top-of-the-rotation guys, one a righty and one a lefty, for Garcia, I'd have been thrilled. The ONLY question is whether or not Floyd can turn it around. If the organization is just grasping at straws here, then we'll wind up in trouble. But if they can find that kid some balls, then this deal will look really freaking good in a year or two.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) Versus paying Bonds money and giving up nothing. Except our souls and our dignity and our pride.

QUOTE(G&T @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:26 AM) Figured people might want to know. I can give a recap. Please.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:25 AM) Except we have 5 good starters. Im actually beginning to like this deal. We got a top young arm, who had some issues under a TERRIBLE coaching staff, and a top young pitching prospect, for no-fastball freddy who is basically a one year rental player for them. The last time the market went this way for arms, the smart thing to do was stock up young cheap pitching from within your system, which we now have done. Haeger, Broadway, MC, BMAC, Floyd and Gio is a nice young stable to have. Hell, just think about what our rotation at Charlotte will look like next year. Broadway, Floyd, Gio, Phillipps, and player x (maybe Tracey or Haeger depending on that 11th bullpen spot). That's a pretty sound place to build from. QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:26 AM) Who's this imaginary 5th starter people keep saying we have? If we traded Garland, I only count 4 guys we can legitimately say should be starting. The other thread is strongly suggesting that any concept of a Garland deal has already fallen through, and that the 2 sides weren't close.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:59 PM) Well Boo urns to you. And Boo One to you.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) Or he could be a loogy with that curve. He's a lefty?

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:55 PM) So..Young, Viz and Duque for Floyd, Gio and Vaz in a way. That's a really wierd way to look at it. But if nothing else, that's a good way to get a younger pitching staff - trade away an old one.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) It's funny when you actually give it some time, cool down and take a look at the deal as a whole it doesn't look all that bad. Of course I am capable of convincing myself of anything so I could just be kidding myself right now. It doesn't look that bad, but on paper, it doesn't look incredibly shockingly amazing either, and that's the only complaint I think you can realistically have. With the decrease in Floyd's value, it just seems difficult to believe we couldn't talk the Phillies out of a little more. Just a little bit more. Garcia, Rowand, and Haigwood for Thome, Floyd, and $20 million or so. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) I love his arm, I really do. There is just something about him that makes me think he COULD turn out to be a complete bust, might just be a gut feeling but something doesn't sit great with me when it comes to Mr. Gonzalez. That being said, I could see him becoming a front line starter some day as well, we shall see. Hopefully they'll both live up to their potential, wouldn't that be nice for a change? It's the health thing for me. I'm just not convinced he won't turn into a Prior/Liriano. But as good as our team has been at avoiding people with severe injury problems over the last few years, that seems like something we're good at, and I keep telling myself that they wouldn't actually reacquire Gio if they weren't convinced he could stay healthy.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) I honestly believe that Floyd will be the best player in this deal. I'm still not sold on Gio, he just worries me though I do love the kids arm. With Gio I think you're either getting a top of the line starter or a complete bust, I really don't think there is going to be an inbetween. I have a lot of trouble believing that our scouting department would be so bad to actually get Gio back without believing strongly he'd be the top of the line type guy.

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:43 PM) Holy crap, is there another move coming soon? In the press conference announcing the trade, KW first says that this move gives the Sox the opportunity to move the McCarthy into the rotation. Later on he says that Floyd will compete with him for the last spot. Hell, if Floyd could actually find a way in ST to pitch well enough to earn the spot, I for one wouldn't complain at all, and I can't wait to see BMac in the rotation.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) FWIW, the Sox weren't talking with Bonds today. There was no mystery team. That's why Rogers said it was a bad rumor. Thank the sun god...

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) Is it just me or does this seem like a bad thing from a business stand point? I mean to us, if we were to pull a Marlins restocking method then we need to do it soon. But you also have to remember the casual baseball fans and the people who have been selling out the cell the past few seasons. How are they going to view this after winning a WS now go to rebuilding? You don't have to do a 100% rebuilding job like the Marlins in order to be competitive every year. We still have a $90 million salary with a lot of flexibility. We still have Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, and Jermaine Dye sitting there. If you want to be competitive every year, this is exactly the philosophy you should take. Squeeze as much as humanly possible out of people, but then don't let them hit Free Agency, because you can get a lot more for people than a pair of draft picks. Before today, in 2009, our starting pitching rotation was looking to be Contreras, McCarthy, Haeger, Broadway, and Phillips. Now we have Floyd and Gio to add to that mix as possibles, and we have a lot more salary freedom to hold onto one or two of the other guys if we want, and we can turn some of those other guys into other useful pieces.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:28 PM) You have to remember, I was one of the biggest Rowand apologists around no matter how bad of an offensive player he was. I've taken over that role with Anderson . QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:31 PM) Its taken a while and he's obviously had control and mechanical flaws, but he's still fully capable of being a front of the line guy. I'm surprised cause I was one of the people b****ing heavily about dealing guys just for prospects but if I understand Kenny's philosphy (based on the Rogers article) things are starting to make some sense and I really don't mind this. Even given all that, even if Floyd is fixable and Gio can stay healthy...doesn't it still seem like we could have gotten a little bit more here? Even if it was just the Phillies trying to do a salary dump? That's my other concern, couldn't we have gotten just a tad more? B level prospect somewhere or something? I like the philosophy in general as well, but that philosophy only works if you maximize the talent coming back to you in every deal, and given Floyd's struggles, I'm just not sure we did that.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:16 PM) With St. Louis missing out on Schmidt, I would think Buehrle really is out the door before the season starts. And say hello to McCarhty and Floyd/Haegar in rotation. Really, I was hoping never to see the Sox have a 5th starter with an ERA of 7.00 again, but some things clearly are not to be... Which is better...having 4 guys at 4 and 1 at 7, or 4 guys at 5 and 1 at 4?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:25 PM) I'm actually pretty proud of myself that I've avoided saying anything reactionary or stupid in this thread seeing as how I was one of the first to post. That Thome trade thread wasn't exactly my best moment. I think that it makes more sense to be reactionary in this thread than in that one, but even still, it's really, really hard to predict the future when you're grabbing 23 year old pitchers. I just hope to Zoroaster that Floyd makes this trade worth while.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) Regardless of what you all think of the trade.....am I the only one that thinks Gio is going to be REALLY good?? Floyd is a risk, but I guess they think Coop can fix him.....but I'm ecstatic to have Gio back. If either of these guys comes together and has a very good year, and McCarthy has a very good year...this will be a very fun thread to bump.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:12 PM) Bonds would hit 10-15 more homers a year if he played at the Cell compared to San Fran. He is still 42 going on 43 next July. The Steroids simply won't fix that.

QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:11 PM) Ok, so truthfully, how many of you dreaded the fact that you had to go see Freddy pitch last season knowing it would take over 3 1/2 hours to finish the game. Not to mention that fact that when Freddy would look over to check back the runner on 1st he would already be standing on second or third. I can tell you from conversations in my section that Freddy games were the most dreaded last season. Now, bare in mind how many bases were stolen off of Freddy last season. Out of 29 other teams how many of them want a #2-#3 pitcher that makes walks look like doubles? Good point...how many fewer stolen bases are we about to give up

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:09 PM) 2.) he is an utter ass.....i cant deny taht........but that .454 obp and 26 homers in pac bell translates pretty damn well in our ballpark....add in teh fact that pitcher will pitch to him alot more often with konerko thome dye in teh lineup behind him, and yeah id take it for a year or two That OBP goes down quite a bit if they actually do pitch to him. And I bet the production does quite a bit too.

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:08 PM) On ESPN today, they said Bonds is looking for $40 mil over 2 years. He'll get half that if he's lucky. For that kind of money, Vernon Wells is a vastly smarter option.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:06 PM) I could live with it. He'll put up a .500 OBP (yes, around that) and is a better defensive LF than Pods (I can't decide if I'm kidding or not). That OBP entirely depends on people continuing to be afraid of him. His OBP did gradually decline last year as people started to realize he wasn't hurting htem as much. (Oh, and he put up only a .450 last year).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:03 PM) If we trade another starter, then who's our 5th starter? At this point...we have a lot of candidates.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) i hate bonds more than any other player in baseball...but i must admit....id be happy if we signed him too I would absolutely be furious.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) I don't mind the trade either. Its the apparent philosophy Rogers is reporting that is troubling me. There is nothing wrong with a philosophy of focusing on making our pitching staff younger. As long as we're getting something fair in return. A lot of that depends on Floyd though here.