Balta1701

The counterpoint from the report is in the methodology page. 2 key paragraphs which at least strongly suggest to me that they did not base this report solely on the eyewitness accounts, but they did in fact in almost all cases work hard to cross check those accounts with other witnesses or with their own ey es.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 10:45 AM) If they are allowing their backyard to be used as a mechanism for launching missiles into Israel, I think that makes a little bit of difference. It doesn't really make them a civilian anymore, no matter how hard they try to deny it. I'm not disagreeing on that point. However, the HRW piece makes a strong case that Israel is doing far more than just targeting the folks who are actually launching missiles, they've repeatedly targeted civilian installations and people with no connection to Hezbollah itself. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) so what is your suggestion to take care of this. We have a terrorist organization launching missles from the saftey and cover of a neighborhood. Negotiations. Sure nothing like negotiating with terrorists. Maybe after 9/11 we should of sat down and asked Al Queda for a peace treaty, and never bombed Afganistan. Maybe Haifa should just get used to the weapons raining down on them. The bomb shelter people could make a killing. If this was happneing in the US and these missles were raining down on your home or your families home, I doubt if you would be sitting here asking for restraint. See, here's the fundamental problem with this statement...I see no reason thus far to believe that anything Israel has done militarily has actually worked. They certainly have not broken Hezbollah's back, they have massively increased the support for Hezbollah throughout the region in both Sunni and Shia communities, they've made the Lebanese government into a puppet of Hezbollah, they've done about $2 billion in damage that will take years to rebuild and will provide a fertile recruiting ground for Hezbollah, and they've proven to both Iran and Syria that their army is less effective against these groups than one might have thought. So, you ask what my suggestion is. Yes, I would have suggested something like negotiations and trying to rebuild the Lebanese government. Do I have confidence it will work? Hardly. But I have no confidence at all in the alternative. But here's my question to you; Israel spent 18 years with its army occupying significant chunks of Lebanon, and it couldn't even scratch Hezbollah. So why exactly do you think that more invasions, more troops, and more bombing are going to make any difference now, when it couldn't do so for 2 decades?

The pitch Teahan deposited in RF was up an inside to my eyes.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 10:22 AM) "No possible military value", my ass. Hezbollah stockpiles weapons in those sites. They fire rockets from people's backyards. They stash weapons in homes. So, in other words, it's ok for Israel to level ANYONE's backyard, because Hezbollah is making use of some people's back yards.

QUOTE(IlliniBob72 @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 10:16 AM) Thank God the HRW wasn't around in WWII. Hitler may still be safely holed up in Berlin while the Russians surrounded the city. It is utterly ridiculous to cry about the tactics used against terrorists who use hospitals, mosques, schools, and residences as bases to wage their hit and run war. It is unfortunate that the Lebanese people have Hezbollah terrorists operating in their midsts, but it is their government that has done nothing. Hezbollah was supposed to be disarmed, so said the mighty UN. In the last few weeks, they have fired over 2000 rockets. Thank God for the UN! Ah, so finally I get you guys to start admitting it...you don't think that any of the rules of war should exist. So here's my question to anyone who agrees with him...why exactly do you think Saddam Hussein should be in prison? He was facing possible insurrections that threatened the lives of his army, the people in his regime, and his regime itself. He responded to that with whatever force he had available to him, whether it was collective punishment against large civilian populations, torture, random imprisonments, etc. You guys are sitting here arguing to me that Israel should have the right to do whatever it wants in fighting a campaign against folks you label terrorists, rules of war be damned. So why does that not apply to Hussein? Why did that not apply to Milosevic?

QUOTE(samclemens @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 09:50 AM) im not rationalizing. israel does not target civilians, as opposed to hezbollah. shame on hezbollah for intentionally using lebanese civilians as human sheilds. every single one of the attacks has been at sites that were associated with hezbollah, including the bombing of the UN observers and the one where all the children died. thats tough spiff if hizbollah can dish it out but they cant take it- they have to go, for good. i know you are not so naive as to think that iran and syria are going to do anything to promote peace in the area, or that any kind of diplomatic solution will work with hezbollah. if that is what you are saying, give me a break. bottom line, hezbollah is a TERRORIST organization. israel is justified in destroying hezbollah. hezbollah started this war by crossing the israeli border and kidnapping soldiers. give credit where credit is due. ive yet to see you even admit hezbollah are terrorists. are you mark malloch brown posting in disguise or something? Except of course, the entire report I just linked to was dedicated to proving the part in bold wrong, with scores of evidence behind their statement. Yes, some of the Israeli attacks have killed civilians because Hezbollah was using them as human shields, which of course is a war crime, and which HRW has already condemned. Yes, of course Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, and if there was a rational way for Israel to destroy it, that would be a great thing. It is committing war crimes repeatedly, and if there were any way to put the leadership of that organization in jail, it should be done, and they should face war crimes prosecution. But here's what I can't get the other side to admit: Israel is not justified in doing anything and everything to destroy Hezbollah. Israel is not allowed to commit war crimes, or directly target civilian installations with no possible military value, just as Hezbollah is not, under the rules of war. QUOTE(samclemens @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 09:55 AM) you seem to be very astute on your israeli-arab conflict history. would you mind telling us all what led to the israelis taking the sinai peninsula? what led to them occupying all of the land outside of israel that they have occupied or are occupying? perhaps its because...they were attacked first? oops, i know, its easy to forget what actually caused the sinai occupation. Um, actually, when the Israelis occupied the Sinai, it was in the 1967 war, in which Israel was not attacked first, they struck first, in one of the most brilliant surprise attacks in the history of warfare. Yes, Nasser was likely to attack Israel within a few years had Israel not struck first, but Israel was not attacked in '67.

QUOTE(samclemens @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 09:42 AM) i wasnt saying that post would seal democrats fate- i was saying lieberman running as an indy might. im just wondering what people think. If there was an actual decent challenger in Connecticut, I might agree. But the Republican running in that race is quite literally a laughingstock already. It's come out that he's a gambling addict, he's been booted from casinos for card counting, he gambles under an assumed name, and he's been sued repeatedly by casinos in that area. The guy's polling somewhere around 20%. There's also been a general feeling/rumor going around for a while that Lieberman might not stay in the race as an Independent too long if he does lose next week. He'd be expected to lose the support of both Clintons, among many other members of the party who said they'd support Joe in the Primary but would support whoever won that primary. He'd probably be facing more pressure to drop out than Katherine Harris currently is. If he does run as an Indep, I think it'll probably take a pretty big foul-up on the part of Lamont for Lieberman to win. Especially given that there's 3 more months of the Iraq war before the election.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 05:24 AM) Uhhh, what? I just think that guns and booze don't mix. And any sheriff who can't see that and orders his deputies to be armed 24/7 regardless of situation or context is pretty dumb. Ah-ha...found it! "I headed back to the steelhorse saloon and had the time of my life. That is, until I reminded them, that they're all a bunch of p*****s. If only I'd brought my gun." - Ed Helms.

QUOTE(samclemens @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 09:37 AM) as compared to the tactics of hezbollah? its not like hezbollah targets civilians or anything... As usual, I immediately get the "It's ok, the other side does it too, and they're evil, so war crimes are ok!" argument. Since I expected this, I have the link handy, here is HRW's critique of Hezbollah's tactics, which they also say are war crimes. Here are HRW's calls to Syria and Iran asking those countries to use their influence to ask Hezbollah to follow the rules of war.

HRW also came out with another interesting 50 page report yesterday taking a look at the Israeli assault and whether or not it was actually complying with the rules of war. They concluded that it clearly was not. Here's bits from their summary, the full report can be found at the link.

QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 09:28 AM) As much as i'd hate to admit this, if we come out of these next 2 weeks looking as spiffty as we do now... It may be time to throw in the towel. I'm trying to be the optimistic homer here, but this year my feelings after losses have gone from it'll be alright to frustration to depression to allout anger...I think it's because we know ths team can do it, it just seems like they're allergic to whatever it is. I'd hate to repeat myself, but if after these two weeks we can't take at least 2 outta 3 from every series....i might start looking forward to the NFL Throw in the towel? I'm afraid it's too late to really throw in the towel and start worrying about next season, simply because we're already past the trading deadline.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 08:50 AM) The Cubs aren't nearly as bad as the Royals. The Cubs still have a couple of real good hitters, they have an ace, and a strong back of the bullpen. Right now, KC's offense looks a lot better than it is because Mark Teahen is becoming a star. Maybe I'm crazy, but teams might want to start throwing him offspeed pitches. Or at least, when he hits a pitch on which he flies out to the warning track, do not start the next at bat with the same *&*&*(&()^(&^(^&(*^&*(^%^*(%$^%$^% pitch.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 08:24 AM) This is for looking at the camera and laughing in every sketch you've ever been in! "Now where's the guy who slept with my daughter"?

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2006 -> 07:35 AM) We've been told repeatedly that we can't complain about winning a series...even when we can't sweep a team that is quite possibly the worst in baseball in years. With Jim Thome and Paul Konerko both out hurt. Thome played what, 1 game in the last 2 series, and Konerko played like 2-3 depending on how you count innings? And we come out of that 4-2?

By the way, the ideal thing for this team to add during the offseason? Some Marbles.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:53 PM) What was wrong with his performance? I think he battled pretty good. He sure didn't impress me. 10 hits, home run on a stupid stupid pitch, seemed to me to be falling behind everyone, and so on.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:51 PM) Correct me if I'm wrong, but 79-319 is .248? Ok, so his numbers have gone up a little bit since I last looked at his player card. Make it a D+.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:50 PM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Interesting comments by Ozzie at the bottom of this article. If he's being honest, maybe Mackowiak will start to get more playing time in LF. And of course, you know what that means...PODSEDNIK IN CF!!! ANDERSON CANNOT FACE RIGHTIES!!!

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:49 PM) Maybe Oz should yell at Uribe every day. He may be a good defender, but I'd give him a C for his performance so far this year. Wouldn't you agree C is all he gets? D. His defense has to be better than this if he's going to hit .220.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:44 PM) Let's face it. We ain't good enough this year. The magic ain't there. Our pen is spotty. Our D is spotty. Even when are healthy our lineup is all convaluted (sp). It ain't our year. Can we eke out a wild card bid? Let's face one other thing, yeah we were playing the Royals, but we just had Thome out for 5 days in a row, and Konerko out for what, 3 altogther, and in that last stretch we've won both series, gone 4/6, and managed to give our biggest guns some rest.

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:41 PM) Well, I'm glad I stayed up for that. I can't wait for our next game against the Doc Hopefully 25 and 14 will be back to stare him in the face.

QUOTE(Harry&JimmyRocked @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) Ozzie should have pulled him IMMEDIATELY! For who? Mackowiak? Thome? Konerko? Alomar? Cintron was at DH, he couldn't be put into the field without sending Freddy Garcia to the plate.

QUOTE(samclemens @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 06:29 PM) that picture is despicable. hey, if lieberman runs independant, that alone could seal democrats fate. like a ross perot type thing. does anyone see that happening? Somehow, I doubt that 1 post at a random blog is going to "seal the Democrats' fate". As always, if you want to , you can find an ungodly amount of stupid bile fired out about anything if you go to the right spot. Sort of disappointing that it showed up at Huffpo, but there's a reason I barely ever visit that site.

QUOTE(Pale Hose Jon @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 06:48 PM) Maybe i was daydreaming through two years of Middle East politics classes, but when did Israel hand over any land? Actually they did, they handed back Southern Lebanon to Lebanese control in 2000, and they pulled their forces out of Gaza, along with many of their settlements, last year.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 08:51 PM) I'm just saying don't assume he just sucked it up though. The same can be said about the D behind him. Pods cost him a run alone and he barely bailed out Uribe's ass from not catching a foulball and Gload wasn't much better. That pitch was not terrible to Teahen eigher. Inside up Teahan just did a good job pulling those hands in and rotating his hips (if you didn't know Teahen has been on a serious tear) If your surprised, I've said it many times I will back anyone in that sox uni.. (except Pollite who is now gone) That wasn't a terrible pitch, except for the fact that it was the exact same pitch Teahan hit to the warning track the last time he was up.