Balta1701

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:06 PM) The only part i dont like about it is that Gio is involved. Other than that i am a fan of this deal. We still don't know that. The best rumor right now is that it's ARow, Haigwood, and a Player to be named later...the only source I've heard thus far suggest Gio could be is Bruce Levine...and well...we should have the quote down by now.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:56 PM) Off the books: Frank: $8M ARow: $3.25 Carl: $4M I know I'm missing something else here...but giving Paulie $12M and Thome $6.25...the Sox are still $5.5 ahead going into arbitration with our other dudes. You're missing the buyots that those guys got.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:49 PM) Not that I'm advocating getting Pierre, but would we be able to afford him and Konerko? I guess the obvious response is "That depends on what number the Chairman tells KW." I keep going over the dollars in my head...ARow was on the $2 million level last season, Everett around $4 million. We'll be shelling out roughly $6 million next season for Thome...so the only difference in those 2 positions is whatever we spend on our Center Fielder. Furthermore...with Thomas dropping from $8 million to a $3.5 million buyout...if Konerko were to get $12.5 million...those numbers would almost exactly balance each other out. Therefore, at that level, the only salary increases we'd be seeing next year would be the increases that were owed to people due to their contracts, the buyout of Everett's contract, and whatever we end up doing with AJ, Garland, and Crede (arbitration). So yeah, I think that the money may very well be there for Pierre if we really want him...but personally, I question the wisdom of trading for another major league outfielder when outfield is by far the deepest position in our minor leagues, especially since one of those guys is basically ML ready, and we lose another if we don't put him on the 25 man this year. My gut tells me that if we really were going to make a push for Pierre...we'd have tried harder to include an outfield prospect in this deal to clear some space.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:36 PM) I read somewhere the Angels are willing to go 5 years , $60 million for Konerko, not quite what Landis was looking for but pretty significant. The Sox have an excellent shot of re-signing him. I've heard those numbers rumored, but the only number I saw printed in the LA Times, who tends to have very good sources amongst the Angels, was a 4 year, roughly $40 million offer as a starting point. Keep this in mind regarding the Angels - they have a free agent Catcher and 2 Free Agent Pitchers who are on the verge of departing. Furthermore, they have a lot already locked up in people, and a lot of people in arbitration this year. The number the LAT gave for the Angels committed amounts was roughly $89 million. Their salary this year was just under $100 million. They may be looking to add some salary, but probably not a huge amount. That means that if they decide to make a run at Konerko, they have to be willing to start the season with Jose Molina as their catcher, with Josh Paul as the backup, and only 4 slots strongly filled on their starting rotation (counting Ervin Santana) Furthermore...the Angels also have people coming up (Kotchman) who can play 1b, which may also limit what they'd be willing to spend on PK. The Angels are a threat, but if we give Paulie what we feel he's worth, now that the Mets have Delgado...the only team I really see making a huge run at him could be the Dodgers (this of course could change depending on what happens with Manny)

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) If Thome is healthy, those figures are a steal. Doesn't he have 4 years left? I think his elbow will be fine, what concerns me is his 35 year old back. The other positive is Jim Thome is as high of character guy as there is in MLB. His contract gives the Phillies a team option on him in 2009, presumably at something like the $14 million a year he was already earning. I believe that we'd have the same deal...where we could pick him up for a 4th, but expensive, year if we chose so.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) Reports have the trade as Jim Thome for Aaron Rowand, Haigwood, and a PTBNL. There are no reports of Gio outside of Bruce Levine--a man known for his non-sensical conjecturing.

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:21 PM) He also told us that ElDuqe was healthy for the entire season last year.. Let Kenny Gm and not play DR. Actually, I believe it was El Duque saying that and not KW. But point taken.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) I like Anderson as a prospect. The only question I have if he becomes the starter in CF is team strikeouts. Thome fans a ton, and BA is going to ring up a pretty big total himself. Rowand struck out 116 times last season, but only took 32 walks. Yes, Thome K's a ton, but so did Rowand...and in Thome's last 9 full seasons, he drew less than 100 walks only once. We have room for a lot of strikeouts on this team now. B.A.'s job is 2 fold...produce around what Rowand did offensively (hit .250 or better with 15 or better home runs), and catch that damn ball in CF.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:20 PM) Rowand, Gonzalez, Haigwood for Thome and Philly pays half of his salary. Haigwood and Gio are still rumors...there's also a possibility that it's a PTBNL instead of Gio (Gio could also be on a PTBNL List). If it were me, that's how I'd have done it...I'd want to see Thome healthy in Spring Training before I allowed Gio to leave.

QUOTE(SnB @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) the borchard ship here sailed long ago. You can't tell me he'd do a worse job than the other "sunday lineup" guys. I mean, come on, could he really cost us more games than Timo? At least Ozzie wouldn't be putting him at 1b.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:15 PM) You know, I think Borchard deserves a chance to try and get a spot on the 25-man in '06. He showed some results in the latter part of '05 that he hadn't shown before. 1 thing that this trade does do is it potentially opens up a spot for Borchard...yesterday, it looked like Brian Anderson was our best option as a backup outfielder...today we need BA Starting. That leaves Timo right now as the only other current option in the outfield...and I would say that Borchard is cheaper and potentially better with the bat. Maybe Borchard could be the PTBNL instead of Gio.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) I'm sold, BA > Pierre. But I could change my mind later. BA ~ Rowand offensively and ~ Rowand defensively. BA > Pierre defensively. Thome > Everett Offensively. Those relations are good enough for me.

This one's for you ARow...

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) Trades'll do that. Jason engineered this trade because of the lack of visitors. Tough to tell. Won't really lose much defensively. His bat is more of a question mark. Aaron's bat was a bit of a question mark too...let's not forget he is coming off a very poor year with the bat. And anywho...think of it this way...if Brian Anderson can hit .250 with 15 home runs, he's only a very small step down from Aaron Rowand. Some would also even say that Anderson is equal to or better than ARow in CF (we'll see). However, if Jim Thome can hit 40+ home runs like he has almost every year of his career except last year...how much of an upgrade is he over Carl Everett?

QUOTE(rangercal @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:44 PM) at this point IMO Frank contract with incentives > 14 m Konerko If Frank could play more than 130 games next year...and Thome could play more than 130 at 1b...then yeah probably. But those are 2 MAJOR if's.

There's only 1 thing I need to give him the benefit of the doubt on with regards to this trade: Jim Thome must be healthy enough to play 130+ games these next 3 years and participate in any playoff runs we make. If he tells me Thome is healthy enough to play, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Not mine...but it was uttered in Japan a few days ago... I've consistently Said, as the Iraqis stand Up, we will stand down

Remember 1 thing...those who are talking about Pierre...the reason to get Pierre would be offense, not defense. However, we just subtracted defense to get offense...but there's a reason why we could do that...because we have defense waiting in the winds in B.A.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) Well I don't think Haigwood would've been anything with this team. As far as Gonzalez, he probably would've replaced Contreras if we didn't resign him after next year. With that said, KW will probably lock up the rotation when they're contracts are up. Basically KW is trying to win it all again next year. And that's certainly not a bad thing to try to do. Put a winning team on the field next year...watch Konerko and Thome jersey sales go through the roof, make another playoff run, put 3 million fans in the seats, and then use that money to keep the team on top and the fan base growing.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:52 PM) Just wondering, how could this make Konerko come back. Could this spell the end of him? Could Konerko see Thome as a replacement for him? I think the real key part of this is that it solves our DH problem in a cost-effective manner and reduces salary (assuming Anderson replaces Rowand in CF), thereby freeing up quite a bit of green that can be shoved in Konerko's way. Think about this...we paid Carl Everett what, $4 million last season? We paid Aaron rowand what, $2 million or so? If you add up what those guys would make...that covers what we'll be paying of Thome's deal. Which means that the money saved by dropping Thomas's salary with the buyout is now officially freed up - we're not committing $12 million to Delgado or antyhing like that.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:52 PM) white sox will pay half of the 12.5 due to thome in 06 and half the 14 mil due the following two seasons. so we just got thome for 20 mil for 3 years. Which if Thome is even moderately healthy...makes him an absolute bargain.

Have we yet become sure it's Gio and not a PTBNL?

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) Our 2 best pitching prospects+our CF for a 35 year old 1B It's a gamble, hopefuly it pays off A 35 year old 1b...and a lot of cash to make that 35 year old 1b affordable. Yes it is a gamble. But you don't win in baseball without gambling. Holding onto those 2 guys would have been a gamble too - gambling that Gio could stay healthy, for example. You just never know.

Thank you 33. You made way too many things look like cans of corn.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:08 PM) It's possible he could be back if the Sox don't sign Konerko. And if we don't he might very well be the best option, which is a bit troublesome. (Gload at 1b with Thome DHing every day?) I would however seriously worry about having 2 guys at this stage of their careers on our lineup, both of whom might only be able to DH for us.