Greg Hibbard

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 02:45 PM) "If either of them have a bad year, here we are." You could say that about any team. This goes for any place where 2 of your supposed best players struggle, you end up with results like we have now. Only it wasn't just 2 of our best players struggling, it was 7 out of 9 starters being bad. It is 3 out of 5 SP's being bad. We have a bad closer with a horrible WHIP and opp AVG. When 11 out of your 15 most important pieces are bad, you will have a bad team, plain and simple. I don't know how KW was supposed to account for 11 guys who were supposed to be vital members of the team stinking up the joint. You obviously can't expect to go 15 for 15 in terms of hitting on players but to go 4 for 15, you have to put all the blame on the players. They all have track records suggestiing they are better than this and haven't showed it so far. Again, you're taking this argument to a place I'm not going, and I'm not sure why. I'm specifically pointing out what aspect this I hold the GM accountable for. I don't hold him accountable for the years had by many of our other players. However, relying on given production from guys without the track record to show for it, and having a team then augmented by "undervalued" pieces, left us a little thin in my opinion. I also give KW all the credit in the world for Rios. I think Pierzynski, Jenks, Peavy should have been playing much much better and cast 100% of the responsibility for that on them.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 12:58 PM) What should have KW done to make you feel better about a fallback option at 2B and RF? It's as if you expect to have a MLB starter sitting on our bench to fill in at the drop of a hat or having a quality MLB option sitting at every position in the minors. That just isn't the case for us as it isn't the case for nearly every other MLB team. KW felt that those two players have proved enough that they wouldn't struggle to the point that they each have. Look around the league at other teams who lost players to injury or have players who performed poorly just like the Sox. Jimmy Rollins has been out nearly all season and have had to play a couple of scrubs at SS. Is it Amaro's fault that they don't have a better SS option within the organization? I don't think you automatically have major league caliber backups ready; that's absurd. My entire point is that building a roster by counting on projected production from those two based on a single great partial year each also seems a little far-fetched, especially in retrospect. We were sold that guys like Quentin and Beckham could contribute enough to this team offensively with their limited experience that dudes like Kotsay and Teahen would be non-issues. I thought going in we seemed a little thin, and I think I even remarked 'if either of those two has a bad year...' Well, here we are. The best GMs seem to have solutions when injury/performance issues come up...I'm really not sure KW has any in this situation, other than "dump, start over".

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 12:26 PM) Q nearly won an MVP 2 seasons ago. If not for his wrist injury the final month, he surely would have won the award. Beckham won the Sporting News ROY last year and if he had come up sooner, probably would have won it over Bailey or at least would have shared it with him. Long track records certainly help gauge a players performance, but very few fans, experts, baseball execs thought Beckham and Q would fall off as they have. To blame KW for their fall off after having great success with each player is idiotic. Your counterpoint is a straw man. I never said I blame KW for their fall off after having great success. I blame KW for having an ill-equipped back-up plan to two guys without enough of a track record.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 03:11 AM) Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Sometimes it is clear that a GM is not putting together a roster capable of winning anything. Sometimes he hamstrings his organization with ill-fated contracts and set it back for years. Sometimes he makes ridiculously poor trades which continuously work out in favor of the opposition. I think it's hard to say those things about Kenny. One can certainly argue the roster we went into this year with was quite imperfect - and I don't have an issue with that argument. But we must remember that rosters are often a work in progress at the beginning of a season, and appropriate tweaks or more significant changes may be made in order to strengthen an area or areas that need be. I think it's apparent that Kenny is a fan of such an approach. So what you have to look at then is whether their were indications that this core would perform this poorly, or even anywhere near as poor as it has performed. If you can honestly tell me you suspected Mark, Jake, and Gavin would pitch this terribly, well, you are a smart man. If you believed that Carlos, Gordon and AJ would perform this terribly, than you are a smart man. In my opinion, to expect those 6 players to perform this terribly for this long was completely unfathomable. I also don't believe there were ANY steps that could have been taken to produce a winning club with those 6 players performing this terribly. I think this is a case where the blame falls on the players. I don't believe firing this GM and replacing him would yield any different results, other than a full-scale rebuild, which may or may not prove to be any more successful than what we currently have. Honestly, the biggest problem I have on the GM-side is that Williams seemingly counted on Quentin and Beckham to go out there and produce at a clip that didn't have the MLB-experience to necessarily back it up. Yes, AJ, Jake, Mark and Gavin have disappointed, but Quentin and Beckham aren't necessarily what we thought they were, and that's a talent evaluation call. (Alexei as well, to a lesser extent)

QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 17, 2010 -> 05:57 PM) That's inaccurate. It has talent that isn't living up to advance billing (Quentin, Beckham, Floyd, Peavy, Danks, Jenks, Pierzynski, Pierre, Teahen, Ramirez, Vizquel, etc....lots of guys way below career norms). The advanced billing of a lot of that talent contains players who may or may not be reliable offensive pieces year in and year out (Quentin, Beckham and Ramirez)

Awesome game. I wonder how many times this season before today eight of the starters have had at least one hit in the same game - I'm guessing none.

Thanks for the info on the radio feed, guys. After the events thus far, gettin' my cap in the tipping position as we speak

really inane question - but what is the best way of listening to the radio (or is there a way) without actually having a radio? Can I get farmio via the internet?

Valentin was a generally likeable individual, and perhaps the best White Sox example of a compelling argument for "clutch hitting" in recent years. He was a huge part of that 2000 team. I liked him, but he was a pretty below average player, at the end of the day. For what it's worth, he's the one Sox player that I thought might have roided.

I'm worried that he's starting to resemble Jose Valentin offensively - an occasional good year largely defined by anomalous power numbers, and then a .230 hitter the rest of the time... Can someone please reassure me?

Actually, I just found out that the 2001 Oakland A's were 8-18 and made the playoffs, winning 102 games. They also closed with an absolutely insane 63-19 run from July 1st through the end of the season.

Out of the past 28 AL playoff teams going back through '02, two ('05 NYY and '06 Twins) had records as bad as 13-19 through 32 games and made the playoffs. Almost all the rest (except the 08 sox and 09 yanks - who were 15-17) were at or way over .500. Is it really fair to bring up the NL teams? That league has been significantly weaker overall during the past 20 seasons, so a lot more movement seems possible throughout the season. The '06 Twins went on a four game winning streak in games 33 through 36 to bring their record back to 17-19. The '05 Yanks continued their winning streak (they had been 11-19) to ten games to bring their record back to 21-19. This seems to suggest that even if we accept the extremely unlikely scenario that the Sox could make the playoffs as-is, it needs to happen RIGHT NOW or never. As in tonight.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:14 PM) There are plenty of PLAYOFF teams that were playing rotten in May. The 03' Marlins. The 07' Rockies. The 09' Rockies. The 06' Twins. You're not making any sense. The '05 Astros too. However, I think if we go back and looks at the playoff teams from the past ten seasons, I'd reckon 90% or more of them weren't playing this s***ty in May.

What's the over/under on how many times hawk will use the phrase "tip your cap" in the season series with the twins?

QUOTE (jamesdiego @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:04 PM) wtf? I guess there's too many people of french descent in this country. Nothing like offtopic, xenophobic jingoism to spice up a thread. Jesus f***ing christ already.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) It happens in our division all the time. Have you not been watching the Twins over the past few years? Did you not notice the Indians almost came back from 16.5 back in AUGUST in a certain year not too long ago? I'm sorry, but 8 games on May 11th is nothing. The reason teams 8 games back on May 11th don't usually win the division is because those teams usually suck, not because they are 8 games back with only 130 left to play. If you want to say most fans are convinced the team sucks, go right ahead. But do not tell me they are "out of it." That is absolute nonsense. Do you realize that to come back from an 8 game deficit on May 11th would require them to SLASH away almost TWO GAMES PER MONTH starting RIGHT NOW? How many games do you think it will take to win this division, with the way the Twins are playing?

I think analyzing this situation has equally to do with identifying how mediocre we've been as a team, but also taking a hard look at exactly how well the Twins are playing. They are getting a lot more than expected from some players, but it appears Liriano is back in a big way and that's a huge unexpected boost for them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:44 PM) They wouldn't have to finish off the comeback to still make it an interesting season. And that's where I think the organization could really get in trouble, by standing pat while we are 6-9 games out through June, July, August.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 11, 2010 -> 01:40 PM) No. It's only two games. Why not go for the gusto and wish that the team tanks the rest of their games so that they're GUARANTEED to get a top pick next year! No wait, let's wish for a 5 year tank-job so that the Sox can have the best AA team in pro baseball! Hell, why not a solid decade of wishing that they lose, it's worked so well for the Cubs! I think you're completely blowing my thought out of proportion. This has nothing to do with draft picks, and more to do with identifying major organizational problems, in my opinion.

If you feel this team doesn't have enough as-is, do you think it be better to get swept by the twins, and start picking up the pieces for 2011 asap? I realize there are those who say you always want your team to win. I realize that many will probably think we aren't out of it yet. This team is not bad, but certainly not very good. In my opinion, as is the best this team can hope to do is about 85 wins. To do even that, they'll have to play 15 over the rest of the way. That's almost inconceivable with the start they've had. It's becoming clear to me that the Twins seems like at least a 90 win team. Why not just start retooling now? I feel as though the worst case scenario is staying close enough to stand pat and waiting until the offseason to start addressing major problems.

2005-2008 winning pct - .540 (87.5 wins per 162 games) 2007-2010 winning pct - .488 (79 wins per 162 games) If the Sox end up averaging less than 80 wins over a 4 year span, shouldn't KW's job be in serious jeopardy?

Juan "leadoff" Pierre, ladies and germs. He'll be here aaaaaallll year.

I think Farmio said last night that it's something like a $2000 auto-fine. That, the beating they will certainly receive from security, and a night in jail ought to be enough of a deterrent, but here we are.

if memory serves the Angels were offering 5/$65.

He was the one glimmer of hope during the 1989 season. Essentially he was the stopgap between Walker and Thomas (which is exactly what we may need?)