Greg Hibbard

Just to be clear - if Rick Hahn had won 100 games and the world series this year, you would want him to replaced, right? He would still be percentage points worse than the Pirates.

If Rick Hahn had won 100 regular season games and the world series this year, and 100 regular season games and the world series last year, he would still rank exactly the same in comparison to other White Sox GMs, but rank slightly better at 20th out of 30 compared to other GMs in baseball. If he had lost 100 games this year instead of going 81-81, he would still rank exactly the same in comparison to other White Sox GMs, and rank 29th out of 30 compared to other GMs in baseball. In other words, there was NOTHING Hahn could really have done this season or last to substatively change these rankings, so how does this have any meaning with regards to his performance in this particular season? I'm not criticizing, just wondering out loud. If he did everything right, he's aggregately as bad a GM as if he did everything wrong.

So what does this mean? That he is gone for sure?

I wonder how many people that have no confidence that this organization can win with the current roster we are obligated to, this GM, and this ownership also simultaneously think retaining Jose Abreu blocks this organization from winning a championship they don't believe this organization can win with the current roster we are obligated to, this GM, and this ownership. If you don't believe this owner, this GM, and players like Moncada, Robert, Jimenez etc that we are absolutely bound to for the next several years CAN win, then WHY NOT bring back Abreu to be a White Sox for his entire career?

You can’t spell “Luis” without “IL”

Nah, that’s not at all what I’m implying. Yes I suppose the $10 million player option is a sunk cost - the White Sox cannot get out of that. What they could have averted were all the benchmarks for an additional million. But Gavin Sheets does not fit the description “defensively above average RF”, nor does Adam Haseley. Adam Engel could play right field, sure - but it’s clear we have gotten out of him what we will. why wouldn’t we just bring up a good defender if the alternative is that we are going to take basically a 0 WAR at that roster spot next year? Might as well get good defense for league minimum and get the roster spot back. Because 0 is what Pollock gives you for a sunk cost, or Engel for 5 million. Bring anyone up and save money while hoping to NOT take a damned zero. Maybe it’s not good business but I don’t want to see any of these damned bums next year. I want to cut bait with as many of the 2022 clowns as possible. If it’s the same group I’m not watching next year.

Oh my lord people, stop rationalizing. I would rather take my chances with any minor league right fielder who is defensively above average for league minimum than being back a 0.6 WAR player for $8 million. It is sheer, senseless, boneheaded, stupid general managing.

Losing is a disease as contagious as syphillus

I do think the white sox lost several games to injury, and that if they were as healthy as the guardians we would be two back right now. Equally frustrating about all of this is that the White Sox were a real outfielder away from easily winning this division. I think what's most aggravating though, is that I look at a Guardians team who plays hard and is hungry every day, and a White Sox team that is sleepwalking unless something happens to wake them the f*** up.

I agree with this. The Sox have played good enough the last three weeks to be back in this thing by all rights - but the guardians have just been as good or better at times. I wouldn’t want to face the guardians in the playoffs if they make it. They play hard and they’re hungry. imagine the storyline too if they shed that awful name and mascot and the very year they do it, they win and break the curse.

I think we need to rethink our expectations of what a “good team” is. Most folks around here seem to think there’s only maybe 4-6 good teams in Major League Baseball every year, those who make it to the league championship series, and maybe a couple of the better ones who do well in the divisional series. I think the way we are conditioned to root for “championships only” is toxic and zero-sum. I want to win as much as anyone, but I think all or nothing is such a bad way to be. Over the last three seasons, the white Sox have been probably the 7th or 8th best major league franchise. If we are such a terrible organization, are 22 of 30 MLB teams terrible organizations too?

I want ALL of my garmonbozia this season, and apparently the White Sox are gonna give it to me

His hitting sucks this year, and his good defense is invisible. The thing is, we concede that Sheets and Vaughn absolutely kill us in the outfield and we lose games because of their defense, then we also win games because of Moncada’s defense. He is a top tier defensive third baseman. in just 83 games this year, he is 80th out of almost 800 players in all of MLB in DWAR. If he was playing every day, he would likely be a top twenty player in that category.

Moncada is not a bust, in the slightest. He has woefully underperformed offensively this year, but he still has 1.1 WAR in 83 games. Even with his terrible stats this year he still has a 3.6 WAR / 162 career average.

Rick Hahn, if you truly are the GM, and you truly love the Sox, then tell Tony to take the rest of the season off and hold a damned press conference and stand by your decision “out of an abundance of caution for his health”. Take the ax if you have to. Be actually in charge for once in your damned career.

I’ve been thinking about it since I put this thread up, and went back and forth, but honestly the only way I would want to see Jose Abreu go is if the front office went and a whole lot of other players went. I don’t think the people running this organization have one clue about winning in the postseason or building a postseason contender anymore, and I don’t see Jerry firing anyone…but if we somehow did clean house, I would want Jose gone because it’s the smart play and a talented manager and GM could flip it around in 2-3 years. If it’s going to be the same clown show in the front office and managing for the next two years, then yes I want Jose Abreu, the man who bleeds black and white, to finish his career with the White Sox .He’s been nothing but someone to celebrate on and off the field and selfishly I want him to have his entire career here. Unless he would have a chance to win a title. Then I would trade him wherever he wanted to go.

Seven years later, Drake LaRoche is still the model for "clubhouse leader" for this embarrassing organization,

I think the solution is that Eloy and Vaughn CAN play left field. No, it's not a great solution, but it allows for you to spread the 650 PAs that three positions will receive (LF, 1B, DH) among 4 people. If Abreu is resigned, three things need to happen: 1) The White Sox need to increase their payroll expectations by the amount they are giving Abreu every year - because that is a choice. It's all monopoly money. I know, I know - JR is a "cheapskate," etc. But we all know that even a luxury tax hit would have literally no impact on the financial health of the organization or JR or anyone. 2) The White Sox need to swallow Yaz' worthless contract and have him catch in a platoon with nothing else. 3) Abreu needs to sit 30 games every year. Like everyone else does. There were a few stretches where he was struggling where he could have used the time off. They sign a major league RF and Everyone else has to "fit in" to this: Abreu: 300 PAs at 1B, 200 PAs at DH = 500 PAs Vaughn: 1/2 1B when Abreu is DH (175 PAs), 75 PAs at DH, 250 PAs in LF, 50 PAs in RF = 550 PAs Sheets: 1/2 1B when Abreu is DH (175 PAs), 275 PAs at DH = 450 PAS Eloy: 400 PAs in LF, 100 PAs at DH = 500 PAs

I’m wondering more whether Sheets could hit 35 home runs as an everyday player. Do we really have a large enough sample size against LHP?

Seems like one of the only topics worth discussing these days besides Cease being Cy worthy.

Honestly, I’m glad this is all just meaningless now. I don’t have to be stressed out anymore and I can just tune in when I want and root for the players I like. And root against the players I don’t like. Like Joe Kelly. I love to watch Joe Kelly fail.

I considered Lucas, but as bad as he's been in the bad starts, it seems like he's only had 7-8 games that were really out of control terrible. To be clear - he's not been good this season but his FIP is wayyyy below his ERA. Would you believe 8 of his 23 starts have been QS?

I excluded pitchers from this discussion because they don’t make as many appearances, and I’m not really referring to who has been injured / out of the lineup. Players like Anderson, Jimenez, and Robert are plenty valuable when they play. My question really is - who has been the least valuable player who has appeared in at least 70 team games?

Here’s my new perspective: they said it couldn’t be done, but 2022 is the year we put everything else second to prioritize the truly important things: such as making absolutely certain Gavin Sheets got enough at bats to almost be a replacement level major league player