Greg Hibbard

In the Reinsdorf era of ownership (Sox have 5 playoff appearances and 1 World Series) 18 teams (WS wins, playoff appearances since 1981) Dodgers (2,17) Cardinals (3,16) Orioles (1,6) Tigers (1,7) Royals (2,5) Mets (1,7) Twins (2,9) A’s (1,15) Blue Jays (2,6) Braves (1,18) Yankees (5,21) Diamondbacks (1,6) Angels (1,9) Red Sox (4,16) Phillies (1,7) Giants (3,10) Cubs (1,7) Astros (1,10) teams that haven’t had as many of both: Reds, Rays, Rockies, Indians (a million division titles and heartbreaking WS losses), Padres, Mariners, Marlins, (who won 2 but only have two playoff appearances), Expos/Nationals, Rangers, Pirates, Brewers it really underscores that the problem is ownership.

The thing that greatly angers me is really not about not getting Machado. The things that makes me extraordinarily angry: 1) that we went out and got Yonder Alonso and John Jay as window dressing, and then offered an amount of money that was a completely bad faith, shit offer based on where everyone knew the money should be, including Machado, his agent, my cat, and any intern working in baseball. 2) that early along people scoffed at the White Sox being serious suitors, given their track record with FA, and then people grudgingly included them in reports when it became clear they were the only real offer for weeks. Then, after San Diego just went out and got it fucking done in a normal way, our organization looks like the punk ass b**** bridesmaids who got stood up at the altar, and we can now not too quietly return to being league laughingstock cheapskates. 3) that just once our stupid fucking front office can’t just have gone out and done something extraordinarily above and beyond to get a premier player in an era that demands it given where their organization is 4) that just for once our stupid fucking front office can’t fucking own their total lack of vision on this. If they had simply not pursued Machado, we would have been fine. Instead, we look like complete fools, have nothing to show for it, and the optics are terrible for luring future FA. There is no silver lining in how this was handled. How it was handled was categorically terrible.

I think the thing that hurts the most is that we can't just make this go away now, because we have to look at Yonder Alonso and John Fucking Jay for the next entire season. I doubt I will go to a single game. I'm not revoking my fandom, but I would have rather they just DIDN'T EVEN PURSUE HIM. Play to win or go home, you stupid clowns

1997: "Anyone who thinks this team can catch Cleveland is CRAZY!" 2019: "Anyone who thinks this team can match San Diego's financial power is CRAZY!"

can we rename the thread #HectorSuicideWatch

I'd like to go to a game this year, but I just can't get to the $10 level

Every day I ask for this to please be over tomorrow

42 days until the White Sox play opening day.

It's just amazing to me that amid all this other nonsense literally nothing official is happening for days, weeks, etc. This all just feels very, very bizarre.

I’m also from Oak Park. Was really heavily split in my era of growing up (80s and 90s)

Considering his young age and how much baseball he missed waiting to get here, I truly don’t understand why people don’t project him to improve.

I dunno, with Eloy’s arrival and Moncada’s continued development I expect to see a more consistent offense this season, and with a very good bullpen we will have a shot at a lot of close games. I think it’s at least 3-7 games over that total.

THAT low? Come on - even $175 million would be tied for the 22nd largest contract in sports history. Anything north of $217 million is top ten. I don’t think your auction league analogy is a particularly good one, because no matter what is going on, this is going to be one of the two biggest sports contracts of 2019 and one of the biggest ever. I don’t buy it. The Padres are not just going to suddenly wake up with $175 million to throw at a player because it’s “that low”

28 days until Spring Training. 64 more days until opening day. No matter what, this has to be over soon.

I can't believe we have to endure yet another week of this hell

Guys, I’m not stating that Avi and Jay are the same type of player, and I’m not sayin we brought in Jay to replace Avi. I’m asking which one of these two very different players will be the better value at a similar price. Because they have similar salaries and potentially similar fWARs.

It’s interesting that Jay and Garcia ended up with similar deals money-wise. Who do you think will be the better of the two in terms of the bang for the buck?

You mention those 210 strikeouts in a vacuum. Do you disagree that Moncada got rung up on called third strikes that were actually balls at an unprecedented rate? Because that's what the stats say. Do me a favor, as a mental exercise, just please turn 10 of those strikeouts into walks and get back to me and see where his numbers might have been if the umps were where they would have been with literally any other player. Also, let's please contextualize Moncada's age. He missed nearly 18 months of baseball at a critical time waiting to get over here. That doesn't happen to most 23 year olds. Do you utterly discount that? In baseball years, he's more like 21 1/2. Can you imagine where he might be at 25-26-27-28?

Hate them together. Broadcast is unlistenable.

Embarrassing to who? Not to this White Sox fan. Let's talk about dirty play/lazy play. What was AJ Pierzynski's reputation before he came here? What about Dennis Rodman? Would anyone argue with either of those signings in hindsight? I would argue that both came to Reinsdorf teams and grew the fuck up a little, and learned to play hard, sometimes creatively, but they also learned to fit into a scheme to win championships along the way. Remember Rodman kicking the cameraman? I think Machado has some growing up to do, and here he can do it. How? By surrounding him with the right people - a support team he can lean on and an organization hungry to let him be The Man and cater to him. I'm proud they are pulling out all the stops. It's about fucking time. I watch national media do their best to completely ignore us year after year as we play second fiddle to the Cubs' salad years. THAT'S what's embarrassing. We are the most forgettable also-ran team in any city in America, and we need to do SOMETHING. We need a STAR. Not someone who projects to be a star, not someone who is a can't miss prospect still in the minors. A bona fide, proven, major league STAR. We need to start building that so we can rebuild an actually healthy fanbase. We are losing people in this town as the Cubs reel off 96+ wins a year and the Bears move into championship mode. If we don't do this NOW, we risk 10,000 at the park next August and September. Manny Machado and Bryce Harper are those stars. Get one of them and LET'S GO. Whatever it takes.

He's not league average, but he's above replacement. That's been a problem - rounding out their lineup with above replacement players. Also, the White Sox aren't positioning themselves to win a World Series next year. They are positioning themselves to contend for the division title in a weak division, win 80-90 games, identify who is valuable moving forward, and continue development. A proven, consistent veteran you can plug into a hole at a fair price is valuable thing.

I’ll bite, Greg. The Jay signing doesn’t anger me because Jay is a pretty damned consistent non-needle mover. You know what you will get -a .270-.280 season, probably an OBA of .320-.330, passable CF. A WAR of 1-1.5 at a position in the batting order, and within our financial scheme where it’s perfectly acceptable to have that. The Machado stuff is cherry on top. It’s a very smart move all around. With Avi Garcia, you might get a 2.5 WAR season where he hits the BABIP luckbox again, or you might get injuries, inconsistent defense, low batting average, low oba - for twice the money. The latter is much, much more likely. With Engel, who knows where the bottom might be offensively, and we’ve reiterated over and over again that the defensive wows don’t amount to nearly enough to outweigh it. I think you can pencil in Jay’s floor and his ceiling. There’s a comfort in some sort of certainty.

should I be concerned about Herrera's Washington splits from last year?

I like the way you think, but the conditional probabilities of getting both are not equivalent to the standalone probabilities of acquiring one. There's a very real chance that getting one means the White Sox simply no longer pursue the other.

I've shifted my thinking on this over the last couple of months. Regardless of expectations, it really would be a massive disappointment if the White Sox didn't land one of these two players. At any price. With the way they have constructed this team, they should pay whatever it takes to get one of the best players in the game for the 5 years they expect to contend for a World Title. Even if it's a 10-12 year deal where they pay 5 bad years at the end. If they don't land one of them, and end up falling into the 85-90 wins/catch lightning in a bottle pattern they have tried to parlay into relevancy over the last 20 years, I think they really flirt with danger of losing relevance whatsoever. The culture of the casual fan in this town is 100% behind the Cubs baseball wise, and the Bears are good again. If we don't pay through the nose to get one of the best players in the game, in their prime, we're just dumb. And probably fucked. We need to make that kind of splash NOW.