Greg Hibbard

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Apr 6, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) To each their own ... It just seems like a whole heck of lot of energy and anger put into an April day game/August upper deck corner -- and only for the reason being "out of principle" I agree with you that with where they stand in the MLB they should probably go out of their way to make the fans that do come out feel welcome and special - I also think season ticket holders (I've been for many years) could give two s***s about someone getting a replacement upper deck pass.. In the end of the day my only thoughts are this: 1 - dude, don't get so worked up. It's a 60 win Sox team. 2 - Sox should care more about their existing fans that are sticking with them right now and should probably get creative with ticketing/marketing ideas 3- The Sox don't need to care. Look at the Padres, Marlins, etc. etc. etc. These owners make money regardless. The difference between 15 and 17,000 fans a game isn't a huge deal to them. They follow the money. So they are focusing on other areas. I appreciate your response, but with all do respect, 1,2, and 3 do not address any of my points whatsoever. I get that small and midsize MLB teams are about money. I get that it's a bad team. I'm talking about how the White Sox nurture their fanbase. I'm talking about basic s*** that's real, real dumb when it comes to customer satisfaction. I took the time to make some well-thought out points about how they may want to rethink their approach, and their response was "this is what we're doing" If the White Sox continue to approach marketing and fan outreach in these ways, then they will never mend what has been a 40 year problem. You would think that they might think they need to learn something, given how piss poor their past results with this have been. However, you can't teach people who need to learn. I'm really most angry that the team I love continues to shoot THEMSELVES in the foot with stuff like this.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Apr 6, 2017 -> 10:19 AM) Not to be a dick here ... but you are complaining about being refunded $3.54 cents ... for a baseball game .... in 2017. You can't even get a BigMac for that price nowadays. And then you go on to say you'd buy $50 of concessions --- so its zero about the money then ... although you reference "value" If you are willing to pay for $50 in concessions you really don't care about value. Take the $3.50 and buy a $6 ticket off stubhub anytime throughout the year. Me thinks you're looking for a reason to be upset. Just enjoy the 10 games you get for the price of one half of a single Cubs ticket..... You are way off here. I could give a f*** about the money. Seriously. I can afford to spend 2 grand on the white sox this year if I wanted to. I did buy the package on the pretense that I was getting 11 games, and I followed up because I thought it was strange that the White Sox deviated from their standard policy of issuing another ticket when a game is rained out. I just wanted what I felt was standard, and I was polite in my response. When they balked at giving me the extremely standard replacement ticket to another game - even when I asked them for essentially the s***tiest seat in the house - and explained that I would be spending more on concessions that day than their entire package, they gave me extremely illogical, s***ty reasoning as to why other ticket holders needed to be protected, and then broke from that reasoning in the very next sentence, and then said if I emailed them again their reasoning actually didn't matter in the first place. What I'm actually VERY angry about here is that the White Sox had several opportunities to make things right by the fans this week, and at every turn they continue to be the Keystone Kops of sales, marketing and catering to fans. They could have called Monday's game well in advance when everyone knew the weather was going to be outrageously bad. Tuesday was always going to be way better weather wise. Instead they dragged a few thousand diehards to sit shivering in the frigidly cold rain for a game that was NEVER going to happen as of Sunday night. That's why I never even bothered going to the park despite having THOSE tickets too. They could have done the ballpark pass fans rained out of their first game a solid and issued a upper reserved ticket to any dog game in August out of an array of 10 or so that will be 15k in attendance - but instead they refunded $3.54 to fans, essentially taking away their own ability to make concession money from satisfied fans. In my experience when you give more to the fans, the fans spend more money. When I pointed the above out to them, they gave me the s***tiest, stupidest, Dollar Bill Wirtz reasoning ever - and then contradicted it in the next two sentences, essentially saying "you're f***ing stupid, but here's some sentences. Email me anyway. I guess." Seriously, this is f***ed, and this is another example of a team that has representatives that have NO IDEA how to cater to their own dwindling fanbase. What the f*** do I know though - I'm not running the marketing for an completely invisible team in the third largest city in America.

Sorry guys. I realize this thread is getting sidetracked and I'll stop now.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 04:12 PM) Yeah it sounds like he got exactly what he wanted. No, if he had emailed me back and given me tickets to another game I would have gotten exactly what I wanted. He wants me to wait until the end of the month to ask him again for what he said he couldn't give me now because it "wouldn't be fair to the other fans". Even though that doesn't matter if I email him on April 30.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 04:09 PM) Not sure why you are so upset with that response. He literally said to contact him at the end of the month and he will get you tickets to a later game. So he's gonna give me a game if I contact him on April 30, why the bs about season ticket holders and full price buyers? why not just give me one NOW as a good faith measure? In order to make ME jump through another hurdle? Thanks for making me say "thank you sir, may I have another"? I'm upset because the idea that the White Sox are protecting season ticket holders and full price ticket buyers is BULLs*** and the notion of them offering monthly plans for the whole season - and not announcing it until later - seems to also be another example of the White Sox being organizationally DISINGENUOUS to their fans on two different levels. Their season ticket holders are LITERALLY their most loyal fans. You can't get a seat for the whole season at much less than $700. Now he's saying that you can essentially get 70 games or so (excluding Yanks, Cubs, and Red Sox) for $3 a ticket? And there's been no announcement like this yet? So those of us who crowded in to get April tickets on the pretense that this was the best way to save on group games would have been better off to wait for June? Ok, so next year, how many people would buy an April pass? How many would just wait until June? What would that do to April sales? This entire thing rubs me the wrong way for these reasons.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 04:06 PM) His response was pretty fair, I think. He also pretty much said that he'll give you another game if you complain at the end of the month. His intention may have been fair, but do you understand how his logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever? He's concerned about the value of the ticket price w/r/t what season ticket holders and full price ticket buyers would be investing in, but then he admits in his next sentence that he has every intention of discounting literally almost every game this year in the same way to people purchasing group plans. This discount would be utterly unprecedented.

Hey John, I'm confused. How would it be fair to the season ticket holders and full price ticket purchasers for the White Sox to essentially allow fans to purchase each month's games at $40? Sincerely,

No, the response was not positive, IMO. Um, great to know that the White Sox are also offering this in June and July, when the weather is going to be much much nicer and not just April, when the weather is s***ty. Maybe if I'd known that I would have just waited until July to buy this damned pass? I guess I should keep responding and let him dig deeper?

This is the response I sent John, Thanks for the response. Speaking frankly, this is a bit frustrating. This package was marketed to fans as a value deal of a group of games. I realize things happen with April weather, but I believe it's disingenuous for the White Sox to walk back on the good faith value of 11 games for a refunded portion of a miniscule amount of money and 10 remaining games (maybe 9 now if tomorrow's weather is bad as well). The true value of this campaign is to get butts in seats in a down year, in my opinion, and I believe the White Sox always make a lot of money on concessions per fan, more than the value of the ticket that will go unsold. I would say that refunding $3.54 does nothing for the White Sox or me, but even a free upper reserved ticket in July gets me to a game, gets me to buy hot dogs, candy, beer and whatever else - and gets me to cheer on the squad. We both know this is a rebuilding year for this team, and that there are going to be dog games in July and August against not-popular teams where the organization will struggle at the gate - why give me $3.54 for each of two tickets back when the team could make $50 in concessions for giving ballpark passers the opportunity to exchange for an upper reserved ticket to a handful of organization-picked games? Sincerely, *****

So I followed up with the White Sox, and for ballpark season pass holders they are giving me $3.54 per ticket back for today's cancellation with no future ticket. I think that's bulls***, because I bought these tickets with the expectation that the value of the purchase would be in getting 11 games, and now I'm getting 10 games (maybe 9 with tomorrow's snow-out???). The entire marketing of this "value" was in buying a package deal for games, not refunds of dollar amounts in the event games are canceled. It wouldn't kill them to give me a f***ing upper reserved ticket to some A's game in July that 10k people are in attendance for. Pretty frustrated with this and it sours me for purchasing this "value" in the future. They would make a lot of money on concessions if I was there in the summer at some random game, but now they lose out. Good job White Sox

I have the ballpark pass for April. Am I just gonna be screwed out of this game? Or can I just go to one of the DH games May 26?

No, and he shouldn't. He's one of my favorite White Sox players of all time. He's just not quite good enough.

For one year I'm on board with rooting for 103 losses.

Christmas just came early Also, the kids can play

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) But what do you want Robin to do differently? For starters, should we talk about Jimmy Rollins?

Because Robin Ventura CAN be changed, VERY EASILY, WITHOUT COSTING ANYTHING, and likely more than one thing about this formula isn't working. Because Robin Ventura has a LONG TRACK RECORD with several different team compositions, and he is not even CLOSE to .500 as a manager.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) The team plays hard. The players seem to like playing for him. I don't think it's a must he return, I just don't think it's this huge deal, no chance to win thing if he's here. They did win 85 games in 2012 with him at the helm. The team plays hard???? How do you know they play as hard as they can??? They seem to like playing for him???? I DON'T GIVE A s***. Go play for Drake f***ing LaRoche. 85 wins is what you remember about 2012? My f***ing god. What I remember is the team going 7-10 at home in September and October. What I remember is the team going 13-18 down the stretch when they had a chance to win the division. What I remember is a massive f***ing chokejob. And THAT'S what we should be looking to, when considering bringing back Ventura? Are you f***ing kidding? Should we hang a gold star on the White Sox 2006 3rd place 90 win campaign, now? What if we make a gold statue of Jamie Burke getting run over by Torii Hunter in 2004? I mean, that team won 83 games. Who cares what place they finished in? Jamie Burke never hit the ground so hard as when Ozzie Guillen managed him. Right?

At the end of the day, the White Sox are a product and Nightengale just blamed the f***ing customers. This is akin to blaming patrons for not coming to a restaurant when the food isn't good. It's just a product to consume, and if the people around this organization don't appreciate what isn't exactly a cheap proposition for entertainment, and aren't willing to provide a product worth consuming, then they can go f*** themselves. Dick, if the manager isn't to be blamed for having a lack of talent then I see absolutely zero reason to tender an offer to Robin. I still ask you - what has he DONE to warrant your support?

Dick, what concrete decisions that Robin Ventura has made on the field do you deem to be "good" this season, meaning they are examples of something he has done that illustrate his particular knowledge of the game and players and leadership of the team?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 01:56 PM) Off the top of my head, I found Connie Mack whose teams lost 610 games over a six season span... in a 154 game schedule. Fine. Yes, there are those from a bygone era that lost a lot. How many managers in the past 40 years have had this bad of a five season stretch and survived the chopping block?

So there's no doubt that Robin will be the worst manager in the history of baseball record-wise with 6 straight seasons at the helm of the same team, right?

This is the worst manager in recent history. There is literally NO reason to retain him. NONE. Anyone would be better. Why watch this team?

This discussion has led me to examine the numbers again and I must agree that OBP is probably a bigger issue. I did not realize the decline this organization has had in terms of taking walks, in general.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 24, 2016 -> 06:27 AM) Yep. Except we just proved that the talent in '97 performed worse then he talent in '16 and still won more games. So what gives?

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) To the bolded portion, I have the following points: 1) Why would a top 8 OBP team not be good enough to win, especially with a dominant pitching staff? Why is the arbitrary Top 5 OBP team that you picked necessary? 2) Please explain how you calculate the average you list above. 3) I find your presentation method a bit dishonest. Yes, a .327 OBP would be 8th in MLB, however, you neglect to mention that a .330 OBP, just 3 tenths of a percentage point higher, would give the vaunted top 5 OBP offense which you seek. Which, again, leads me back to point 1. 1) I don't really know, I'm just trying to respond to others' arguments which seem to imply that at least a top 10 OBP is necessary. what tier of OBP do you think is necessary to have a better chance of getting it the playoffs? Don't some top tier OBP teams also have excellent pitching (I.E. Cubs)? 2) I added their hits, walks and HBP up and divided by at bats, walks, hbp and sf. 3) fine. What OBP would the team have to have to have significantly improved chance at the playoffs, and given the OBP of the five players listed, what 2B/OF/C/DH combo gets you the OBP you need to improve to that mark?