Milkman delivers

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) Wait a second here...the 2006 team won like 90 games...and that was not his fault that they failed down the stretch...they had the second best record at the ASB. Obviously in 2005 there was a WS... The 2008 team won a division... The 2011 team had every chance to win and the players and the manager just s*** themselves... That's 4 teams in the last 7 that I felt very good about, and honestly, the 2009 team had every chance to win. The 2010 team KW and JR agreed to let Ozzie have things his way. I can understand the discontent and the desire for change...but I'm not ready to turn my back on KW just yet...I want to see him function with someone that isn't bats*** crazy for a year or two... I'm OK with him having another year or two. In my mind, he deserved to keep his job more than Ozzie. But if they fired him, I would have been fine with that as well. No playoffs for 5 of 6 years is a failure. QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) Everything is fun about drinking and eating at the ballpark. I don't have to drink for each game, but I'm definitely going to want some ballpark food. That's part of the freaking experience. It's right there in the song for crying out loud. Eating before and bringing water with you sound like a damn chore.

I bet at the end of the movie, Batman finds out that he already killed Bane. But he doesn't like that his life no longer would have meaning, so he sets in motion an elaborate plan that will result in him killing Commissioner Gordon.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) I really like the idea of getting a future SS back, since all we have in the wings is Escobar. Minor might be better than Vizcaino though. Although, one does wonder if Backham could handle SS in the majors, his natural position in the first place. His arm and glove would play, the only question would be his range. If he could do that, all of a sudden he's way more valuable even if his bat doesn't come around. Then he'd be one step closer to actually being Khalil Greene.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:41 AM) So you're of the belief that a manager or leader who fails strictly by results should be fired, even if the circumstances were unforeseeable? And I'm not trying to claim that KW hasn't made mistakes; but if you're going to judge him by those three moves, are you saying you'd fire the guy that achieved poor results but whose thinking was sound? Presumably you would keep the guy that achieved good results but whose thinking was not sound? I guess the reason I am such a supporter of KW is because despite the fact that his results haven't been wonderful in recent years, I do believe in his methods. I'd rather be patient with a person whose methods I believe in than one who may experience success in the short term by way of luck. I'm not talking short term here. Williams has experienced 5 underachieving seasons in the past 6. So I guess if there were a GM whose team made the playoffs 5 times in 6 years despite making some seemingly bad moves, yeah, I'd stick with him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:31 AM) If you are short a few starters, you aren't done rebuilding by a long shot. The inside portion of rebuilding is done, at least. One trade and one signing and they're legitimate contenders for the division maybe as soon as this season.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:23 AM) What's the point of this thread? The Sox have made 1 small deal that's for the long term. It may end up being good or not. That's the summation of where the Sox off-season is now. There are many personnel moves yet to be made so we have no idea what this roster will look like come April. The only thing that I can say at this point is that I am glad that KW has shown, thus far, some patience. I hope that continues and he does A LOT more dealing in January than December. Fixed.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 10:21 AM) I actually liked the Rios deal better than the Peavy one. Yes, I was excited we got Peavy right at the deadline like we did, but in my view, we exposed ourselves to a lot more risk picking up a guy who benefitted from an extreme pitcher's park and had a lot of injury concerns coming with him than the guy who has all the talent in the world, but has an attitude problem. I sincerely believed Rios would blossom here under Ozzie. Unfortunately, I am still waiting. As for Dunn...I never liked Dunn as a player, and I was one of the few who was not excited about that acquisition. However, he was always a consistent offensive player and it would have been impossible to predict the extent to which he would so suddenly fall. How can you blame an executive who's business it is to speculate that which was not foreseeable? All that being said, I agree with Theo...and I am willing to bet if the Cubs had any money they would be willing to talk to the White Sox about Dunn right now. I agree with your first paragraph. I recall myself being excited to land Rios, as he has all the talent in the world and seemed like he was simply unhappy in Toronto. To be honest, I was in favor of all three of the acquisitions of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy (and in that order). There were some reservations with Peavy's injury history, but I never foresaw it going as badly as it did. Either way, mistakes are mistake and KW should still be on his way out.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:50 AM) Yes, I knew someone would post that baseball has the strictest standards. I withdraw my comment, I will agree with the previous poster, baseball has the highest standards of any major sport. Of the minor sports, the LPGA has the toughest standards, I do not believe there can be any debating that point. I'd never looked into it before, but given the evidence, I agree

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:14 AM) Really? Everything I ever heard at ND was that he was a pompous ass who was full of himself. All of the old ND alums hated him because he thought his s*** didn't stink. Either way, the Weis hiring has been good comedy through most of the NCAA. Then again, it's Kansas football, you can't expect to hire much better. Oh, and greg, there is a NCAA football thread for topics just like these where this has already been mentioned. Notre Dame alums calling OTHER people pompous asses? I guess they'd know, right?

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:35 AM) I laughed my ass off when they revealed Mac's full name in Always Sunny. It was funny and strange, as just minutes before the episode, I wondered if they ever mentioned Mac's full name on the show.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:57 PM) Yeah, but I don't think he was playing Rios just to piss off Kenny. I truly believe former players like Ozzie think in the world order of things you play the guys making the huge money. I'm not sure why he finally sat down Dunn for the most part. In other words, you're contradicting yourself. You'll honestly come up with anything at all to justify the things Ozzie does.

QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:31 PM) The thing is that the AL Central is pretty week divison. Cle, Min, and KC all seem to be rebuilding. Can you partially rebuild and partially compete? Rebuilding is just a nice way of saying cheaper and younger. If Detroit has an off year in 2012, then this division is going to be wide open. Personally, I would still try to compete in this division and at the same time get a little bit younger and cheaper each successive year. We have trimmed some payroll already. We can afford to trade Quentin since we have Viciedo at lower price. And we can trade Thornton b/c we hope to have younger lefties available who can be placed in the bullpen. Buerhle, Pierre, Vizquel are all gone. I say keep Danks and Floyd. At least give yourself a solid rotation and see what happens. Next year Peavy's contract comes off. The following year I believe AJ and Konerko's contracts come off. Trade a couple of players each year when you have younger but hopefully equally or more talented replacements. Trade Floyd and/or Danks and then we definitely cannot even compete in a weak division. Those two are just about done with their rebuilding, the Royals more so than the Indians. I would say the Royals are done rebuilding entirely and simply have to sign a few starters.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:51 AM) No. It's the head coachs' fault. QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) The only person calling anyone out here is you calling me out. I thought I made a very clear point. Everyone that knew about this and did nothing but sit on their ass should get the Paterno treatment. That is my point, can I make it any clearer? Everyone that knew and did nothing deserves the Paterno treatment. Sorry if I have over simplified my point. I don't believe it needs to be any more complex. Tex, you're not fooling anyone. Your initial statement was clearly a shot at people "blaming" Paterno, which nobody did. Everyone agreed that it was Sandusky's fault, but Paterno's inaction when he was made aware of the situation created a fireable offense.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) I think I stand by my belief that the LPGA gas the strictest standards. I also choose to not debate SS on whether we consider the LPGA a major sport, I will concede that point. But I will say I believe it is legit enough for this comparison. See, you're doing this simply for the chance to debate. You knew from the very instant you posted that nobody else thinks of the LPGA as a major sport.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) Personally i would go with Weird Al. That's a good one. It was the first thing that came to mind, though.

QUOTE (Cali @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) the Yankees did finally buy a championship in 2009, only after failing to win one after trying to buy one every seasons from 2002-2008... The Red Sox and Phillies spent the most $$$ last off-season as well and were declared the favorites and we had a Rangers/Cardinals World Series. And look at the Heat and Eagles in the NBA and NFL... I think the era of buying a championship is gone. The parody is every sport is too good... Like on SNL?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) Absolutely. Solid 200 Inning and RBI machines don't grow on trees. If we wait, I think contending teams will pay through the roof for Quentin and Danks. They are way more valuable than we give credit for IMO, and waiting until more FAs sign only makes desperate teams hungrier for their services. Danks has pitched 200 innings barely twice.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) I think its taken some casual fans and even some diehards like me to start to realize that this organization has no clear direction, no "Sox way", and piss poor leadership pushing it along. Agreed.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) I think the best part of his post was highlighting the organization. Its easy to get behind an org that seemingly does things the right way, at this point the Sox dont really fit into that category. Been that way for years, though. The last time I felt the Sox were on the right track was about the middle of the 2006 season. I completely agreed with the moves they made the previous offseason in acquiring Thome and Vazquez, etc.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) But without an offer from either of his preferred team, using the term "hypocrisy" is "moronic". I'm not getting back into it. I put it in quotes in order to avoid confrontation.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Rios was known as a dog. How many teams acquire pitchers when they are on the DL at the time? Dunn ... I blame KW cause it didn't work out. Yes he deserves the blame, just like Pritchard deserved the blame for drafting Oden when ALL of basketball said to take Oden. That signing of the bum Dunn cost Sox fans Mark Buehrle. FIRE KENNY! For what it's worth, I went back through the thread about acquiring Peavy back in 2009. You voiced no opposition to it or the money owed to him. Your only concern was who was going to start in place of Clayton Richard for the rest of the season.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 03:13 PM) I think you owe it to PK to trade him to a contender. I'm not a huge fan of him, but the guy has been a class act and will always be a Sox. Unless he's traded to another team, then he'll be a...whatever that team is.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 02:19 PM) You sound like one of the sensationalizing sports columnists in this town. You truly think the Sox FANS have any amount of blame in this mess? Please. Sox fans have shown over and over again that they will support a quality product. Not a big payroll team masquerading as a quality product ... not clever advertisements trying to dupe us into thinking that we're seeing a quality product ... but a true quality professional baseball team (and organization). When THAT is on the field, Sox fans come out and pay to support the team. This shouldn't surprise ownership. They're well aware that Sox fans support quality and vote with their wallets against mediocrity and worse. It's been this way in this town forever. Hearing KW whine about having no money (in those years when his allowance is cut) is so tiresome. You have no money Kenny because your performance hasn't brought in the revenue, which increases your allowance. Instead of whining about it, do something about the product on the field. And if THAT is beyond you, then ownership needs to bring someone else in who can do that job. Sox fans are to BLAME? Wow, you've really bought yourself a bill of goods, dude. You need to post more, dude. You have it perfect.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) Does the Marlins need a C? My wife would kill KW, if they move him.. of course she doesn't get the dynamics of the business side of things. Is your wife a male poster on this site?

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) Considering that the White Sox struggle at times to break 20-25K in the summer time weeknight games, I really don't think the fans are going to games because Konerko is on the team. I just think the fanbase is so small, the only way to draw large crowds is a strong start to the season and being a consistent winner - even this just keeps you in the mid 20's, maybe low 30's here and there. Seriously, who is really going to a game based on a single player (unless that player is Pujols or the like)?