Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 5, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Personally I think that was when the show jumped the shark. I watch and like the show but it really took something out of it that they were not able to replace. It had a wow effect but it had no positive impact on advancing the show. It was an overreaction to the (correct) fan reaction to all of the previous seasons. Fans were getting upset that they refused to kill off any of the popular characters when it would flow naturally with the plot. Instead, they would have a ridiculous swerve at the end of every season where they basically just hit the reset button right back to how things were at the beginning of the season. I had given up before this part, though. I swore I'd stop watching if they did it again and they proceeded to do the whole . As to Boardwalk Empire, I'm disappointed that we won't get to see the Rothstein assassination and maybe a couple more, depending on exactly when they pick up the series in 1931. But, they also might cover it in a flashback.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 29, 2014 -> 02:43 PM) This Stephen Colbert guy is not funny nor is he talented. These ISIS bastards are brutal and I don't find it terribly funny what they've been doing. His jokes and delivery are not entertaining. Did you see England has issued a "severe" terror threat at home? These ISIS guys are so brutal it's beyond belief. https://screen.yahoo.com/popular/isis-panic...00660.html?vp=1 Wrong on both counts, but I'm guessing this isn't the first time you've been told that.

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 01:25 PM) I remember that from history books in school. There's a movie about the split Roman Empire out there. They had two popes and two emperors. That's why there are Orthodox and Roman Catholics. They split the entire early Christian world in half. The maps encompassed much more than just the schism, though.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 12:44 PM) 40 maps that explain the Roman Empire http://www.vox.com/2014/8/19/5942585/40-ma...he-roman-empire Between that and opening a new Wikipedia page from something I read in almost every map, I spent about 1-2 hours on it yesterday.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) The facts will never be out there. So many versions of the "facts" are out already that literally anyone can paint any version of the story they want and be right based on the "facts". I'm about 100% positive there's more that'll be out sooner or later.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) In a perfect world, to me, they would have waited another few seconds or a few more feet. Again, it was a shoot first response, which doesn't seem entirely appropriate. I'm not even sure they warned him first. They just kept saying stop. Ha, you don't have to say "stop or I'll shoot". The order is enough. It could help to say it, or it might not.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) Cops don't get paid well enough to take risks with crazy assholes on the street. I don't particularly care for police officers, to be completely honest. But I certainly don't expect them to mess around with the lunatics they encounter on a daily basis. Love you, too, shack

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) When he was teenager, my cousin was pretty prone to rage and fighting with his parents. In one incident, he threatened his dad with a knife, and I think he had already hit him a few times. Police were called, but weapons weren't drawn. They talked him down out of his rage and ultimately left with a "boys will be boys" shrug because his parents didn't want to press any charges. I don't know how things would have turned out if the police rolled up and immediately pointed guns at him, but I can only think that it would have increased the chances of something awful happening. Maybe, I don't know. It's a case by case situation, but the officer would never be unjustified in having his weapon out in those situations.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) There doesn't seem to be a distinction between turning bad and death, though. He wasn't roughed up, he was shot. We gotta wait for the facts to come out. Right now we're arguing over hypotheticals. We don't know what caused each step of rising force on either side. I think we both understand where we're each coming from though.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) Looking at that video though, look at when the shoot. Didn't it seem to be a bit sudden? Alpha keeps posting about how quickly knife attacks can occur, but none of those situations are really present there. The knife was out already. The cops were 10-15 feet away (from the looks of it anyway). The cops were behind metal doors. I'm even fine with them having their guns out. I don't think that escalates the situation when you're dealing with someone who has a knife and is an obvious threat to anyone around him. But I dunno, they just shot so quickly. Seems like shooting was their first choice, not their last choice. And I say that knowing that we're talking about a few seconds and a few feet, but to me that's an appreciable difference. The Brown case is automatic for me if he did run back towards the cop. The cop's already been attacked once. Brown is attempting to do it again. I have no problem responding with shots in that situation. If that's the case in Ferguson, then yes. But the facts aren't all out yet. This guy had a weapon and approached police with it in hand, disobeying orders to stop. There is not a single thing wrong with their response. Not a single department would disagree. I don't know what to tell you. It's a suicide by cop, I'd bet anything on it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) Well, I'm never going to watch one. So thanks for making me throw up. Well, sorry that I was so blunt, but you shouldn't make a claim like that if you have no knowledge of it.

Every department I'm familiar with DOES have civilian oversight. And not saying you can't question things, but you certainly can't question the use of deadly force on an openly armed threat. That's open and shut. This knife situation is not similar at all to the Mike Brown case, which is much more nebulous. The facts still have to come out in Ferguson. This other one is as by the books as it gets.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) Was it necessary to immediately draw their guns when they arrived? To me, that just escalates the situation. (I'm more picking your brain on your training and procedures here than anything else right now) This is easy. Weapon in view, your weapon is out.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:16 AM) Is death the appropriate outcome? Is any other outcome possible? They can be shot and live, yes. The officer COULD use a taser, but as I previously explained, they're ineffective many times with mobile threats and now you might have angered the threat even more and allowed him extra time to use his weapon against you.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) Your apprehension caused me to watch it, and I kind of wish I hadn't. I think you kind of cut to the root of what bothers me so much, and it's that police intervention seems to escalate situations. There were people surrounding this guy that were apparently not scared at all of him. The police arrived guns drawn and threatening and opened fire really quickly. There's logic to this: -He's in a public place with people walking by - He could hurt someone at any minute - He has a weapon! But I got the impression that nobody who watched that in the parking lot saw it happen and thought "thank God the police arrived". ANd that's why I can't get over the Brown shooting even with all the black eyes and stuff. How did a Jaywalking investigation turn so horribly? It seems like the Police trying to reduce risks using their force may be creating more. Let's be completely honest here. The jaywalking investigation turned bad because the person being investigated turned physically aggressive, and it's most likely because he himself was aware that he had committed a strong armed robbery. I don't care what your opinion is, that's how I see it. Either way, it went south because the dead person became physically combative. And to the knife/shooting, if the police DIDN'T shoot him and he ended up stabbing a bystander or even one of the cops, why do I feel like the cops would be blamed for not acting on it?

Just walk at the police with a knife or even a gun in hand, keep saying "I'm not a threat", and they'll have no reason to think otherwise!

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) you should be a police officer

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) Greg, while graphic, beheadings are one of the more humane ways to go. There is no suffering. cynanide suffocates your body. You may go quietly but I can't imagine it's better than a beheading. That depends entirely on what the weapon being used is. If it's just a knife, it can take several minutes. I've had to watch videos of cartel beheadings. They used a chainsaw for the guy whose answer they liked, and a knife for the one they didn't.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) In Ferguson, Cops Hand Out 3 Warrants Per Household Every Year A local public defender on the deeply dysfunctional Ferguson court system Warrants are issued by courts. And any individual can get a warrant for someone else's arrest by merely getting a police report and going to the court.

An officer is being approached with a deadly weapon. As soon as a weapon is in someone's hand, the guns come out, no matter the distance. That gap can close incredibly fast. He approaches, and you want the officers to get in their cars, effectively running away from an armed threat? That is laughable. And tasers are not considered deadly force. A f***ing knife certainly is. An officer COULD respond to deadly force with something else, but he'd probably be an idiot to do so. I just can't believe this f***ing buffoon.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) Putting him in handcuffs after he's clearly not able to fight back or resist....probably dead, that's not going to go over well. Normal procedure for every police force in America. Again Caulfield, you are incredibly ignorant to this whole subject. And to whomever brought up the taser, please read my post from a few pages ago. Alpha Dog covered the distance thing already.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) That's true, but like he pointed out, there had to be a mistake made if an unarmed guy is shot that many times. Now if the kid tried to get the cop's gun, the cop knows he's unarmed. I guess if the kid went for the gun, he deserves to be shot and possibly die. But if he shot him should he blast him five more times? And why would they let the body just rot in the street after the kid was killed? I think mistakes were made in any scenario. And this is assuming the kid tried to get the cop's gun? If this is a fact not an opinion, then the kid deserved to die, I guess. Will this ever be proven to be the real scenario? No, in a shooting situation, you're almost always going to have multiple shots fired. And if some of the stories are to be believed, Brown kept charging after being hit multiple times, making the shots necessary.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 12:15 AM) BMags had a great line in this thread when he said: "But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving." I agree wholeheartedly. Greg, I don't normally even bother to argue with you as you're like arguing with a brick wall, but I have to tell you you're wrong. It's like saying "how good of a driver could ____ be?" after they get hit by another driver. You can be amazing at something, but you can't account entirely for other people.

I know there are statements from witnesses that support both sides and this also won't be received well, but many times witnesses have no idea what their rights are or what actions justify certain responses. When witnesses say "they murdered him", it certainly sounds like it's basically an execution. But, their statements are often shown to be outright lies or simply very misinformed upon more questioning. In this situation, a person may watch Brown charge an officer. Brown has no weapon on him, and the officer opens fire. Many people watching this may believe that this is an unjustified shooting. Some will think or reason that "he was only running at him, he didn't even have a weapon, the cop murdered him without cause". And there's definitely something to that, but it can still be completely justifiable. Many of the statements are their interpretation of what happened, not what actually happened.