Milkman delivers

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:58 PM) I will never forgive George Lucas for taking my favorite badass villain as a child and showing me that in reality he was a whiny little b**** when he was a normal person. Empire strikes back A New Hope Return of the Jedi Revenge of the Sith Phantom Menace Attack of the Clones Exactly the same, whoo!

And it's more of a "retooling" year than rebuilding. You don't expect to compete during either.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:20 PM) i just pointed out all the veterans on the roster and you disagree? How is this team rebuilding. Please point this out to me. With Morel, DeAza, Tank and Beckham, Sale and Reed?? I don't see how reasonable Sox fans consider this a rebuild. And good luck to Robin "dealng" with Rios and Dunn. Yeah it's Ozzie's fault those 2 guys sucked as badly as any players in Sox history. The same way it's KW's fault.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:23 PM) Well its because I just assumed I knew your argument, not exactly a good place to start a discussion. I could have been clearer, I suppose QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:23 PM) The bold is what Im referring to. You were the only one who said it went beyond Paterno? Are you kidding me? You are actually claiming that you are the only person in this entire thread who wasnt claiming that Paterno was the only one to blame here? I'm pretty sure he already went over that. Let's not start it all up again

QUOTE (danman31 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:08 PM) I liked Jedi myself, but whatever. Odd choice. Isn't that considered pretty unanimously to be the worst of the originals? QUOTE (Felix @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:11 PM) Why would you do that to yourself? Eh, I like Star Wars. That's all I got.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:16 PM) Milkman, I have no idea who did what. I just doubt Paterno is the one who made the call, maybe it was one of the other 2, but I just think it had to be more. Balta, Do I think its good for someones career to be the person who helped to uncover the worst rape scandal in College History? Yes, yes I do think that helps. Or do you think that Hoover didnt get a career boost for allegedly solving the mystery of the Lindergh baby. I think we're basically in agreement here. I'm glad it only took about two pages, haha.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) How many defenders does he have just in here? Let alone in that state. Thatd end any politicians career in that state if their name was personally attached, rather than just as part of the trustees. We have to think about this is terms of it being in 1998. If it were to happen back then, with Paterno still alive and the possibility of providing solid proof that he actively participated in a cover up, I think it'd help a politician's career.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:15 PM) but when the program says they'll take care of it, that's normal. They say it's not a probl, they're expected to take care of it. Huh? Not sure I follow.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) Are you kidding, you really think "bringing down Paterno" would be a good thing for a politician? If it's "bringing down the Paterno who helped to cover for a child molester", then yes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) If a governor had made it his personal mission to bring down Paterno in the mid 90s, wouldn't Paterno have won? We're talking about a legendary coach here. He's not making state policy, but if he wanted a problem to go away, it would go away, whatever level it was at, and everyone here knows that's how a program like that runs. Sad thing is, that's not always a bad thing. College kids do stupid things, and if JP could help some of them get second chances because he could make everyone look the other way, great. But there's also a level of trust where you don't expect the program to cover for a child rapist. You expect a legend to be better than that. I can see a guy in that position having some pull, enough to get a kid out of a DUI or something. I don't think any coach would have the pull to prevent a governor from looking into a child rape. Badger, I think it got as high as the DA, and he made the choice (most likely influenced by PSU folks). I don't think it necessarily has to involve anyone else higher than him. I even went into some detail on how the 1998 investigation could have simply been deemed a stupid mistake by the police/DA and that's why they decided not to pursue it, and without having to be influenced directly by PSU people. It's unlikely, but it could be. I'm thinking it's a cover up by a group of somewhere between 5 to ~20 people (depending on how many police were involved). And with the police, I don't believe they have to be part of a cover up at all. Once they give the information to the DA and he shuts it down, I don't know many cops that will risk their jobs to go against a DA's decision. That makes them wrong, definitely. But that doesn't make them part of the cover up.

I get where you're coming from now, but wouldn't the common sense thing be to figure that a person was talking about the college? I mean, if you're going to assume that someone is talking about the entire state, then why not the entire country, or the world? I feel like the onus should be on someone to specify that they mean the entire state, when (I'm guessing) the vast majority of people will automatically assume that the place of Paterno's employment is the subject. f*** it, it's Friday and Raiders of the Lost Ark is on. I don't think we have an argument anymore

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 08:51 PM) See Milkman, some people actually believe Paterno was the most powerful person in the state. So I thought you believed that too. First of all, I'm not attacking you. I just brought up people creating straw man arguments and happened to use one of your quotes. Secondly, I thought it was common sense that I meant Paterno was the most powerful person at the college, not the state. I can't speak for Balta. That part seems a little ridiculous to me as well.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 08:40 PM) Drunkbomber. Points up. but while their positions are literally above Paterno, nobody was "above" Paterno. Still to this moment, people believe that Joe Paterno had the ability to cover this up. Paterno was not the most powerful man in the state of Pennsylvania, my guess is that there are even a few people in the Govt. who dont like PSU, maybe they went to Pitt, Temple or Penn. The Governor in 1998 was Tom Ridge, who I assume was also more powerful than Joe Paterno. Oh, that fake argument again.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 08:16 PM) Drunkbomber. Points up. Right now, someone is saying that there is no one above Joe Paterno in the state of Pennsylvania. Think about that, no one in the entire state of Pennsylvania. Still to this moment, people are arguing that this cover up was perpetrated by Joe Paterno. There is your proof. Or here is Milkman Once again, people saying that this cover up was merely 3 PEOPLE. And my response: So the very person attacking me (MilkMan) was one of the people who was saying that there was nothing else to see here. While I was saying That is what should be the most troublesome. That all of these incidents occurred and PSU is basically taking the position only 3 people knew. That just cant be. Do you need more evidence? Or is that enough to satisfy this nonsense, because Ive only gotten through November 10. (edit) And quite frankly I cant believe how civil Ive been in this thread when numerous times Milkman took pot shots at me. First of all, nobody is saying that Paterno is the highest person in the entire state, just at the school. And I stick with the statement that "the entire school or BOT is at fault there" is incorrect. I seriously doubt that every member of the board, perhaps none, were aware of it at the time. And when I said that it "seems" to be only McQueary, Paterno, Curley, and Schultz, well I don't see how that's very far from the truth. It's possible that the cover up was orchestrated by those few and couple of policemen. A cover up doesn't have to be all-encompassing. A few higher-ups can successfully perpetrate it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) What you're missing is tht there was no one above Joe Paterno. In a legal sense yes there was and those guys are deservedly facing charges. But those guys would not touch that program without Joes permission. Beat me to it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 07:29 PM) And I already addressed that statement was merely: It was hyperbole, maybe 10% were saying it, maybe 50% were saying it, it didnt matter to the point of the post. The point was, that I from the beginning said that it was likely a cover up that went above Joe Paterno. If everyone in this thread now wants to agree with that, so be it. But if you go back through my posts, you will constantly see that I do nothing more than respond to other people, who continually are arguing with me. It stands to reason if they are arguing against me, that they disagree with my point. Since I can only recall a handful of people agreeing with me, it is logical that the most disagreed. Maybe thats wrong, and people were arguing with me because they agreed with me, either way, I dont care. People were thinking that it was a cover up from the very beginning. And the part that you disagree with is the "above Joe Paterno" part. We all think it was a cover up that involved Spanier/Schultz/etc., but while their positions are literally above Paterno, nobody was "above" Paterno. That's the key difference, and I don't think it even needs to be argued any further

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 05:32 PM) Is there some reason people keeping referring to me? Its pretty annoying, especially when the statements are not even close to true. In my opinion, most people did not care to really discuss what was going on, which was evidenced by my posts in November and my increasing frustration with the seeming lack of interest in who else committed crimes. Bottom line, believe whatever you want, Ive read all 68 pages numerous times, and its pretty clear that only a few people really cared to look further into this.If you think you were one of them, great, double thumbs up. I really dont care, the only reason I started posting in this thread was because people did not really understand what the Grand Jury Indictment was. QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 05:05 PM) You and badger are pulling the same s***, making up the argument that people don't believe that others are also at fault and deserve to be shunned/jailed. QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) No Steve, lets set the record straight. While you were busy believing that Paterno was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania and that it was all Paterno, I was the only one saying that there was no way it was just Paterno, and that Paterno was being used as a scapegoat to cover up for more powerful people. Lets start at the beginning, in early November, I was already saying that it was Penn State, not Paterno.

Kind of funny that the best movie in each trilogy is the one where the bad guys come out on top.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) Revenge of the Sith Attack of the Clones The Phantom Menace I personally think 2 and 3 receive a lot of unnecessary heat because of the Jar Jar issue in 1. I can't remember almost anything from Attack Of The Clones, which might be why I view it so low. Now I think I'm going to rent these movies.

I didn't see much wrong with what Ozzie had to say in that article. Surprisingly classy.

QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 04:06 PM) He doesn't deserve a pass and I never said that. But that isn't how you like to discuss stuff. You like to twist s*** and make up stuff. I have consistently said that others DESERVE MORE OF THE BLAME. And those individuals that were eyewitnesses and ear witnesses to the abuse have received far less of the public scorn and attacks than Paterno. That seems lopsided. Where have I ever said he deserves a pass? But you will make up statements like that. So why do you think his wife should be given a pass even though she was home when the abuse happened and heard it? Why do you think the eye witnesses deserve a pass? You and badger are pulling the same s***, making up the argument that people don't believe that others are also at fault and deserve to be shunned/jailed.

How would people rank the prequels? I honestly can't definitively make a list, as they were all sub-par at the very best, but I'd say: Revenge Of The Sith The Phantom Menace Attack Of The Clones I haven't seen any of them all the way through in years, though, so I might need to update that if I see them again.

QUOTE (MEANS @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) Darth Maul fights Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Darth Sidious/Palpatine is the Phantom Menace That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure what you were trying to say at first.

QUOTE (MEANS @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 12:00 PM) it's Maul who's in the fight scene, not Sidious, who is "The Phantom Menace". Yes the movie wasn't that great but I still enjoy seeing a SW film in the theater so I will go see this, in part to support the rest of the films being released in 3-D for the next 5 years. Which one are you saying is the phantom menace? You phrased it awkwardly.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:55 AM) Of? Preposition