DukeNukeEm

Dude, wind farms are an eyesore. The Columbia River Gorge is ruined by them, as is the US-2 run up to Glacier NP through the Blackfoot res and so is Elk Mountain. Theyre cool the first time you see one but they look like s*** after that. If you want to preserve the earth's natural beauty, a rare (I think only) instance where I endorse government involvement domestically youre doing a lot more harm than good with wind farms. Find something else less obtrusive. If I have to sacrifice to save the planet I still want to enjoy the scenery were trying to save

Yea, because the cultures of the 3rd world are so benevolent. An ANC government that unilaterally ignores the needs of the white minority is fine. Well, not just fine but beyond criticism. You try and admit that they arent perfect but every time I bring up those imperfections you freak out. And if I actually try to blame the person nost responsible for their reign? It ilicits a reaction from you thats so genuinely angry you start reminding me of myself. But on the other side of the Atlantic your views are a little different. The black minority needs to be protected from the hostile will of the white majority. Really, its a democratic tyranny argument at its core when people start talking about civil rights in the USA. Every time something like the CRA65 gets passed its circumventing democracy intentionally because 50%+1 dont really give a s*** about 15%. I dont really like democracy that much so I dont care either way as much as I let on. But, I do have a bit of an issue with people lauding a foreign democracy for mistreating a minority group while chasting its domestic counterpart for not mistreating the majority enough. Is it really because of skin color? Has white guilt gone global?

Not really, Im just wondering what they replaced Apartheid with really has a moral leg to stand on.

This post is so good I wish I had wrote it myself.

In fact, Im the least racist person in this thread. I maintain this ANC crap has failed but everyone else defends it. People are actually suffering under these assholes, and we fail to exert the same international pressure to oust the ANC because the see South Africans as pet negros they can use to prove how rainbow they are. People would rather they suffer than backtrack on how awful their government is due to political correctness.

Nothing I said is racist. At all. Go back abd find me the smoking gun of this horrible bigotry.

It has, they know it has. This chart, which is the first thing you get if you Google image "south africa crime" leaves out all pre-ANC stats and the last 5 years where those rates have gone up. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_viol...in_South_Africa There, making me cut and paste and s***. Highest instance of reported rape on the planet, only est 1 in 9 rapes reported and the one thing youd figure a government would do, raise penalties, doesnt happen. Its 2 years if you rape someone. Even the president got charged (later acquitted) with rape. But yea, its getting better. Because Balta found a dumb chart on Google.

That chart supports my point.

Its modern incarnation is his doing. It existed before but he built it into what it is now.

And rape, and violent crime, and corruption, and one-party rule.

Because its his ANC that has presided over this mess. He created it, he entrenched it and its the idolatry that he carried that makes it so powerful and immovable. I am nearly positive all the well intentioned American blunders don't get this kind of free pass. Why the double standard?

Entitled and lazy. It says a lot that we have so many, theres no excuse in a country with this much opportunity and resources. Not every other country is so fortunate.

Yet you just wave over them. The closest anyone came was challenging America's first 20 years of existence, which was kind of stupid because America did a whole lot of good in its first 20 years.

Life expectancy has gone down. Crime has gone up. Its gotten worse. I could link this but copy/pasting on my phone is an ordeal. I dont want to.

The poor in this country dont have much of an excuse. The guy livi ng in a cardboard house outside Johannesburg probably does.

He targeted innocents to punish the guilty. Which is, despite being a word I dont like using, terrorism. A big part of this is what kind of evils people seem willing to endure. South Africa is an AIDS infested rape jungle swarmed in poverty and general indifference to human suffering. Thats bad, and its really an objective fact that I could easily prove and you know it. But the institutional racism is gone. And the racism was bad too. Thats a fact, it can be proven, etc. Im just wondering out loud whether the trade-off seems worth it. The ANC did away with almost every aspect of Apartheid Government which is a triumph. But theyve also watched the country slide way backwards in terms of the quality and length of its citizens lives. Are we just intolerant to racism but paradoxically tolerant to widespread death, suffering and poverty? I think so. I cant make up my mind whether that's right or not, and since I have those doubts canonizing Nelson Mandela seems rash and ignorant of what South Africa is today.

I had been drinking and went a little off the res. Lets reel this back in. I dont hate Nelson Mandela, I actually kind of admire Mandela's violent streak to an extent. He did what he thought he had to do, it was bad in South Africa and peace wasnt going to solve anything. What I have a problem with is him indiscriminately targeting civilians and the brutality he oversaw. He was not a saint as so many like to portray. He killed a lot of people. His party did f*** the country up something fierce, too. They broke Apartheid but replaced it with a corrupt, wicked demon child that is doing serious harm to those people. I dont condemn him for being a terrorist or communist, his ideology is his business and the institution he was terrorizing deserved it. But, and its a big but, he did some stuff that cant be reconciled away. He tried to leave South Africa a better place than he found it but in the end the country has managed to get worse and the means no longer justify the ends.

No. And judging by the conversations I've had with South Africans its not the best idea.

It started a long, long time ago. But your insistence that other Americans are to be feared because they are dangrous is accelerating the process. Dont worry, it wont be Nazi Germany. They need you alive, healthy and productive so you can keep pumping those tax dollars.

You asked what America did in its first 20 years. I said it passed maybe the most important founding document in world history. I am using the exact same standard for both. I dont know why I'm bothering with this. End point : South Africa has turned into one of the most miserable places on the planet under the ANC and can really only be charged with the "accomplishment" of f***ing the country up worse than when it was under Apartheid.

f*** youre right. We should just burn it then. We can replace the first amendment with #Justice4Trayvon, then we can prove to ourselves that we arent racist anymore.

Are you trying to tell me the US Constitution was not ratified in the first 20 years of America's existence? If you are I can prove you wrong with facts. Or a fact. One fact.

Lol, "What was America doing that was so great in thr 1790's huh?" Is reinventing democratic government for the first time in a millenium not good enough?

We were passing the Bill of Rights, exploring our continent, going to the moon, etc. Not raping each other compulsively.

Native Americans was a war of conquest that they lost. Back then wars for land happened, if they wanted it so bad they should have fought harder for it. Japanese Camps was stupid and I beleive we've admitted that one and paid the people interred. Women's rights in America moved at about the same pace as history. Gays are discriminated against on one f***ing issue that nobody shuts up about. Blacks is more complicated, but eventually righting those wrongs was an ultimately bloodless affair comparatively. School shootings are meaningless. Infinitesimal amount of deaths wildly overhyped by our blood drunk media. More kids died of Leukemkia on the day of Sandy Hook than by guns, but we dont hear about them because its not dramatic enough. As for suicides, if people want to kill themselves thats up to them. I dont give two s***s about gang members slaughtering each other either, I actually wish theyd get better at it. So yea, America isnt really that violent a place. You are told it is to scare you and vote in these fascists who want to steal your rights "for your safety". OTOH, South Africa is arguably the most violent country in the world. Highest rapes, tons of murder, assault, burglary... the president before this one said something to the effect of "if you dont like it, leave" regarding the rampant violent crime.