Frankensteiner

If we traded for Soriano, why wouldn't we just sign him? It's not as if we have clear cut long-term answers in LF (or even 2B). Fields, if he stays put, won't be our LF in 2007.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 02:03 PM) The Tigers and their package starting with H. Sanchez will easily top what we likely offer. Soriano is actually the #2 guy on my wish list right now. Then who is #1, and #3-5?

I might get hammered for this, but if we got Soriano, we should just stick him at 2B. A Pods-Soriano combo would be awesome as your 1-2 hitters.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 02:22 PM) Nomo is by far the best comparison I've ever seen, that's the one I always love to use. 1 great year, another pretty good year after that about 5 or so ok years and then just utter crap. I really see Dontrelle going down this road. If Willis was really no better than Nomo, do you guys think Kenny would be chasing after him like this? Not to play the "these guys know what they're doing" card, but our scouting department must see that he's not doing this with smoke and mirrors like it's being suggested here. And if we're going by your theory, shouldn't Willis have peaked in his first year instead of his third? It's not like he adopted that delivery last year. Hitters should have been used to seeing him by last season. As far as this year, his numbers are pretty good outside of the horrible month of May. His biggest problem is he's walking too many hitters (BB/9 is the highest of his career). On the other hand, his G/F ratio is the best it's been. Also, saying he pitches in a pitcher's park is irrelavent as his home splits are just terrible compared to his road splits (6.17 ERA vs 2.49).

I just think this team needs better pitching from the starters. This isn't some huge secret. We can talk about Ozzie-ball or fundamentals, but really, last year Ozzie ball was successful because of the pitching. I didn't think we were a particularly strong fundamental team last year. We had some bad bunters in the lineup, too (Rowand, anyone?). We're getting killed because 3/5 of our starters absolutely blow at the moment. Buehrle seems like the most likely for a turnaround. But one of the other two guys should be moved to either open up a spot for McCarthy or allow Kenny to trade for another starter. So I'll say a trade is probably what will get us going.

I am far from an optimist when it comes to these things, but at least Buehrle kept the base runners relatively low for an outing where he gave up 5 runs. It seems like if he does give up a run, Buehrle just wants to get the inning over as quickly as possible by throwing pitcher right over the plate. Being extra careful with Ian Kinsler while Michael Young was on deck was beyond awful, though. 2-8 over our last 10 against good teams. If Kenny stands pat, that would pretty much be inexcusable. And I don't want to hear any spiff about bullpen help. We either need to upgrade our starters or figure out a way to improve the lineup so we can really out-homer teams. SS, CF, even LF-- let's get some high OBP guys for these positions.

Buehrle is keeping us in the game. You can't ask for more from your starter.

6.5 I sure hope we're working on getting some bullpen help!

Konerko and AJ coming back to the mean is a big reason why the offense is coming back down to earth. Let's pray the same doesn't happen to Dye and Crede.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) Cabrera would drive us absolutely insane. Anyways, I see no way that the Orioles/Mazzone give him up, especially as they're not in contention this season. For some reason, I have a feeling we're going to see a Fields/Lumsden for Gordon trade in the next 10 days. I think that would make me sick. Gordon does very little for this team unless he's actually replacing McCarthy in the bullpen.

Cabrera has a nice arm and I'm sure the White Sox staff saw something they could do with Cabrera. It just makes feel so good inside knowing Don Cooper has all this time to evaluate other team's pitchers while our rotation is pitching like spiff.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 05:01 PM) Thats fine, I'd rather keep him than give him away for free. I've seen enough out of him that makes me think he'll still be the pitcher he has been. Maybe not this year, but I see him being fine over the long haul and I actually have some confidence after the final couple innings of his start against the Yanks. My thoughts are don't ever sell low, so if you could get respectable value for Garcia fine, otherwise hold onto him because this is a guy thats been pretty damn good his entire career and still has plus breaking stuff and I'd have to think (unless he's hurt) he'll get that velocity back (especially if some of what he's doing is by choice). I'm not sure if the velocity will come back this year, because I think he was out of shape and than when you mixed that in with him getting ready earlier than usual for WBC play it really mixed for a bad combination. I hear what you're saying, but is it worth it to be stubborn about his value when you're in the middle of a pennant race? As you said, he might be fine next year, but what about his 86 mph meat balls when we're chasing the Tigers? This team is built to win now; we should take advantage of it. McCarthy would probably give us a better chance at winning but there's no way Ozzie starts him with Garcia still on the team. And I disagree about being sure of Garcia regaining his velocity. We should decide whether or not we're interested in winning trades or winning in the playoffs.

http://foxsports.foxnews.com/mlb/story/5803144

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 04:47 PM) I'd trade Garcia for any reliever as long as it meant we also got a pretty good prospect in return. Garcia is a proven commodity and I wouldn't deal him for nothing. If all we are getting is a Tom Gordon in return than i say thanks but no thanks. I think the Phillies will beat you to the punch with the "thanks but no thanks." I mean, Garcia can't even get us Duaner Sanchez right now. You're really overvaluing Garcia at this point.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition...ny-sports-print

More from Stark's chat:

Some rumors from Gotham Baseball: http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1153454862.php

From Stark's chat:

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 09:58 AM) Minaya came out yesterday and said the only person he would consider trading Milledge for is Dontrelle Willis and he ain't available. And really considering how Cliff Floyd won't be a Met next season (think his contract is up), it never made sense from the start for them to give up a potential 10 year stud in Milledge for a guy in Garcia that they may only have for a season and a half and not even produce very well. Yeah, that's what I was saying, too. My point was some people still have an over-inflated picture of Garcia's trade value.

Those Garcia for Milledge/Sanchez rumors sure seem realistic now. We'll be lucky to get Heilman, imo. And as I mentioned yesterday, there's no way we're getting Tom Gordon for Freddy.

QUOTE(GOD @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 10:25 PM) OK so I was reading a book today on the history of the White Sox and discovered a big similarity between the 2005 White Sox and 1959 White Sox, both teams went to World Series, and then what both these teams did in the following off seasons. In 1959 the White Sox were a team built on pitching, defense, and timely hitting, much like the 2005 White Sox. Between 1959 and 1960 Bill Veck felt that the team needed more power and traded away some of the lesser known position players for some more pop in the lineup, including aquiring Minnie Minoso. The following year the team raised its team batting average by 30 points (.240 to .270) however the team finished ten games out of first. This brings me to my point. The White Sox traded a key position player in Rowand for some more pop in Thome, as well as getting rid of other key parts from last years team like El Duque and Marte. Much like the 1960 team, this team appears better than the year before. However, the added power and other losses have taken away from how this team won last year, smallball. Anyway I'm just commenting on how there are many similarities between the 59-60 Sox and the 05-06 Sox, and I'm hoping history won't repeat itself. If we still had made no changes to last year's team, we'd probably be playing .500 ball right now. The key difference (or drop-off) between '05 and '06 is the starting pitching, and with last year's lineup, things wouldn't be looking very good.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 09:28 PM) I remember a week ago when I was ripped to shreds for suggesting a milledge for garland/garcia trade. I still think you were rightly ripped for that. No one is giving you Milledge for Garcia. That he might be moved for someone else isn't what you were arguing.

Kalapse had a good idea in the post-game thread. As far as my fantasy GMing... I would try to shop Garcia/Vazquez and try to get the best reliever possible: Gordon (most unlikely) or Sanchez (unlikely) or Heilman (most likely). This opens the door for McCarthy and, at worst, provides only a slight downgrade in the pen. Then try to put a package of Uribe + Fields + Broadway + B prospects for Tejada and see if the Orioles bite. Improve the lineup, improve the rotation, and keep the bullpen at a decent level.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 06:02 PM) And then when Garcia can "magically" throw it 91-94 again next year and has a pretty solid year cuz he needs some more green...then what? I think Gillick would do it(because I'm sure he still likes Garcia a little from his Seattle days...or perhaps that's what would drive him away, I'm not sure), and the value is there, and I see no reason why the Sox wouldn't do it, seeing as how much they've soured on Garcia. If Garcia starts throwing 91-94 again, he'll be good. But that's a big if and he hasn't shown that ability all year. I see no way the Phils would do that trade. They have scouts so they'll know what they're getting.

Getting an All-Star closer for a middling starter with an 86mph fastball isn't "getting the bad end of the deal." It's winning the trade hands down.