Frankensteiner

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 04:22 PM) Youk scares the crap out of me here. Seconded. His s*** face is pretty ugly, too.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 03:30 PM) Fathom in another thread I mentioned that by the time we get back from detriot we will be 6 games out and no longer in contention for the division. We are playing like s***. This is the first decent pitched game in a long time and now our bats are cooling. We will contend for the wild card and thats it. Detriot will trade for a big name, we will get bullpen help. The yanks will play better and we will go back and forth with them for the wild card. Sorry folks, tough schedule and Detriot will be too far ahead to catch. Oh by the way I am a sox fan, but a realistic one. This seems too pessimistic but there's some merit to what you're saying. Our pitching is not good enough to beat the really good teams. KW should see if there's a quality starter available, otherwise it's hope and pray that our starters magically get better. I've heard so much about the Tigers fading because they couldn't beat the Red Sox or Yankees. Well, everyone will shut up about that now that we're getting our asses handed to us by Boston.

f***ing pathetic stat right here for Uribe: BA's OBP - .276 Uribe's OBP - .246

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 03:24 PM) The Red Sox have outplayed us in every phase of the game this series. Yeah, I think they've shown they're the better team. Better approach to hitting and better starting pitching.

QUOTE(CYGarland @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Someone needs to get a cane and yank that dam fool with the Red Sox jersey from behind home plate out of there I'd rather just beat him to death with that cane.

Cotts' 9 K/1 BB ratio in July is pretty filthy.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 02:54 PM) Is anyone starting to think that last year's pitching may have been a fluke? That thought never crossed my mind until a few minutes ago. But, perhaps we just got a lot of fluke seasons out of a few key guys? I think the only one that we could say that about is Garland. Buehrle is going to pitch better, but he has meltdowns and you can't expect him to shut down good hitting teams like the Red Sox. Contreras is good although he now seems prone to these wildness streaks. Garcia just isn't very good because his stuff dissappeared.

I'd bet Jose comes out for Loretta next inning. It was a decent outing by Jose, but he should have stepped it up more today, imo.

This is not looking good. What a way to end the 1st half, getting your ass kicked by the Red Sox. We are seriously in some trouble here if our pitching doesn't turn it around (which at this point, I'm not sure we can really expect better from Garcia or Vaz). Even the world's biggest Sox homer, Hawk, admitted as much.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) Schilling has nothing today. We should be killing him today. We lit up Beckett, and we were a small shot from putting Lester out of Fridays game. Buehrle and Garcia had nothing on Friday and Saturday, and were promptly hammered. The Red Sox were a small shot from putting Jose out of today's game (our ace!) in the 4th inning.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 02:29 PM) Um, the Red Sox are a really good team. But their pitching hardly impresses me. So what does that say about our pitching?

Anyone still want to argue that we have better pitching than the Red Sox?

Just a reminder, the Sox have had the weakest schedule of any AL team up to this point. Those thumping their chest about the Tigers lack of success against good teams may want to think about that.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 08:18 PM) Talk to the Angels and Astros about Buehrle and Garcia about "not dominating" in the playoffs. Did you read what I wrote? I did say Garcia was a dominating power pitcher last season and in last year's post-season. That's not going to happen again unless he re-discovers his good fastball. As far as Buehrle, he did pretty well against a weak hitting Angels lineup. He's always feasted on poor offensive teams. There was nothing dominating about his 7 IP/4 ER starts against the Red Sox and Astros last year.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 06:10 PM) Neither is Wakefield or Wells, and there's no guarantee that Beckett will even be healthy when the playoffs come around. People said the same thing about Clement last year, and he sucked. We hit Beckett pretty well too, so it's not like he's the shut-down type either. By that logic, Vazquez is a shut-down type too because he as the ability to do it. Beckett isn't pitching much better than he is. I'd happily take our rotation, because it is deeper and more proven. Boston has Schilling and a ton of question marks. We've at least got Contreras and Buehrle, and I've got a lot more faith that our guys will pitch well when it matters. That's true about Beckett, but he has been dominant in the playoffs before. In contrast to Buehrle (who's never had great stuff) or Garcia (who's lost his stuff), Beckett has the ability to shut teams down. Also, he's been hurt by the HR ball this season, but his WHIP coming into today was still lower than any of our starters outside of Count... which tells me he's had some bad luck. Vazquez has given up more baserunners and he's never had Beckett's post-season (or even regular season) success. It's not a good comparison. As far as our rotation being more proven, I don't know about that at all. Schilling has a much better track record than any of our pitchers. Count's had a bad month and it's still to early to tell if he's a sure-fire ace. I need to see him do that over a full season... hitters can adjust, which is why I'm still somewhat skeptical. Buehrle is a good pitcher, but he's not a dominating post-season pitcher. We had Garcia last year as that other power arm to go along with Contreras. I think we're missing that this season.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:45 PM) Since when do you have to lead the league in every category to win it all? Even assuming our pitching stays this bad, which it probably won't, we've got the #1 offense in the league. That's enough to get you through the regular season, and the playoffs is a crap shoot. The playoffs are a crap shoot? Since when? QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) You can find weak links on EVERY team. Besides, two of the three were part of a champion last year that had a much weaker offense. I'll take a weaker offense over weaker pitching any day of the week. The fact that those players were part of a championship team doesn't mean much though, because as you said, the playoffs are crap shoot.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:57 PM) You're making assumptions about the rest of the season based on a very small sample size. We've really only been pitching this poorly for two weeks, and we're still only 2.5 games behind the best team in baseball. There's no guarantee that Detroit, a team full of pitchers with meager major league resumes and a first-half specialist journeyman will keep playing this well, just like there's no guarantee that our staff full of veterans will keep pitching this poorly. There's a lot of baseball left to be played and you simply don't know what will happen. You're already conceding everything though. Even if we struggle through this next stretch, assuming we lose every game and that Detroit wins every game as well is a hell of a stretch. If pitching wins, how come the Cubs lost in 2003? How come the mid-90's Braves only got one title? How come the A's never won a playoff series? It takes a lot more than just good pitching to win it all. Even with our pitchers performing like crap of late, we're still on pace to win over 100 games and have the 2nd best record in baseball. If you're so sure that we're going to lose, go buy a Tigers' hat and go away. So now John Lester is the savior, 1.55 WHIP and all? Come on. He probably won't even be on the playoff roster. I'd take Schilling-Beckett-Wakefield over Contreras-Buehrle-Garcia. And guess what, we're 0-2 with Buehrle and Garcia pitching against Boston. Buehrle, although a very good pitcher, does not have the power arm to shut down good hitting offenses like the Red Sox.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:41 PM) How about the fact that their team ERA is higher? Josh Beckett is their number 2 starter, how's he doing? Lester just got into their rotation recently. They've been screwed with Clement and Wells. As far as Beckett, his stuff is better than anybody on our staff, and I've seen him dominate in the playoffs. I'd take him over anyone of our 3-4-5 guys. GMAFB. Garcia's ERA was 5.86 in April, 4.81 in June, 6.00 in July. That's 2 s***ty months and he's working on a 3rd. The guy's stuff is gone... unless it magically returns, we're stuck with an average to below average pitcher. Garland has been terrible up until his last few starts. There's some serious hypocricy there, trying to downplay what you describe as "one bad stretch" of pitching, yet jumping for joy because Garland's last few starts. I'll start getting excited when he gets his ERA under 5. Vazquez has had a bad June, I'll agree there. I'm not holding out much hope for him to be anything more than a servicable 5th starter.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:33 PM) How in the hell do you figure that the Yankees are better? Their pitching about as bad as ours with no real prospects for improvement, with Matsui and Sheffield out for the forseeable future our offense is better, and our record is 5 1/2 games better. Boston's pitching is worse than ours too. Suddenly a pitching staff goes from the best in baseball to horrible because of one bad stretch. I'd happily take that bet. We will not lose 6 in a row. How do you figure Boston's pitching is worse? Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Lester is a better combo than any of our 4 starters. Also, "one bad stretch" is not entirely accurate. It's taken them 3+ months to accumulate these ERAs, right?

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 04:20 PM) That game thread was closed faster than any I have ever seen. Was the third out even recorded before it was moved? I guess people don't want to discuss how our starters are going to flip that magic switch in the second half of the season that will prevent them from having ERA's near 5. It's July, dude. I'll start to panic if they're still this bad in September. Oh, and nobody worry about the Tigers. They're not that good because, remember, they couldn't prove themselves against the Red Sox.

I think we should seriously look into this. It's clear pitching is our biggest weakness but there's too many egos and feelings that could be hurt, so it's likely that nothing will happen there. We're going to have to out-homer teams to keep winning. And as much as I'd like to pledge my trust and undying love in the hands of Greg Walker and this offense with 4 guys having career seasons, I think this team would look much better with Jones. If Ozzie thought Anderson's hitting wasn't a problem, there's no way he would give Mackowiak's glove 3 starts in CF this week. And Mackowiak shouldn't be out there. EVER.

We're getting outplayed today. They've hit better, pitched better, and played better defense. I'd say they're the better team overall.

GIDP coming right up.

PH with Anderson here.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 03:05 PM) Settle. I am referring to this game, singularly. When a White Sox player hits a dribbler up the middle, a Red Cub player seems to be there. When they hit one up the middle it seems to always get through. They have out-played us today. I think hitting is about the same, their starters are better, and bullpens are about same. I would give them the edge.