spiderman
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Posts posted by spiderman
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On 9/5/2024 at 9:53 AM, southsider2k5 said:
Baldwin was just IL'd.
Priorties on the skilled IF should be
1. Ramos
2. Vargas
3. Sosa
4. Amaya
5. Nicky.
Of course we will probably send down Ramos for Moncada and then start him at third every game.
Yep, play Vargas everyday also. He's probably going to be a starter next season at 3B (or moving him around some), but agree with your list.
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On 9/5/2024 at 11:01 AM, Tnetennba said:
So many wasted AB's on the Tommy Pham's, Nicky Lopez's, and Gavin Sheet's with nothing to show for it...
Yeah, that's my concern for this upcoming off-season. More of these "veteran" type options to fill out a lineup and be leaders, etc. when, in reality, you're signing mediocre backup players and putting them in key roles.
Again, I understand....to a point, why they wouldn't be signing players of any significance to big money deals next year IF they are expecting to lose 100 games....at the same time, I struggle with settling. I'm just asking that they (without knowing the actual free agent market) would consider adding players to begin to get the team moving in the right direction. You can do that without mortgaging the future.
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I don't see the point of playing him with 20 games left. Just tell him to rest up and get ready for next season.
Even if he plays DH and hits a HR or two, that doesn't change anything. He's been a bust and won't be here.
They should prioritize playing time to Ramos and Baldwin...I guess I don't care if he plays over Sosa or Lopez, but I don't see any scenario where Moncada is back even if it's a minor league deal. I think they need to move on.
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20 hours ago, WestEddy said:
Didn't Getz say this isn't the off-season they'll be "spending"? I see more fix and flip options, maybe 2 starting pitchers, an IF and OF. Another weird, unemployable catcher who could call a game, or keep the backup gear warm until Quero catches fire.
Has he said that?
Technically, yes. They will probably sign a veteran starter or two that will be the equivalent of Flexen or Fedde. Guys that can't throw innings and/or who they think have a potential upside, but on team friendly 1 year deals preferably.
I would think upgrading the offense with more than slap hitting fringe MLB options would be a priority, but they may sell us on guys like Quero and Montgomery being difference makers who will do that. I understand, to a point, that they don't want to spend big money on free agency in a year where they are still in full blown rebuilding mode, but things are so bad right now, if there's a player they can acquire who is not 30+, but is more in that 25-27 range who won't cost them upper end money (which eliminates them already), they should be looking to add players.
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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:
This off season? No way. And honestly, unless you were getting Juan Soto, who out there is going to be long term enough to matter to the future White Sox? You have to be talking about a 5 to 6 years of productivity from a free agent to get into the Sox potential window again, because there is still not enough offense in the system and on the horizon for this franchise.
Yeah, I would be surprised if they spent this off-season. Without knowing who is available in trade or free agency, I think they should consider adding anyone who is younger and can contribute to the MLB roster. That may require them to spend money which would be a tall ask, but if there version of improvement is trading for more slap hitters with low upside who they hope can contribute, we're going to be in deep trouble again next off-season.
I really struggle with this team telling us they need 3-5 years to rebuild. That shouldn't be acceptable.
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13 minutes ago, JoeC said:
Any player who signs here is in it for the money, or because he can’t get a big league roster spot anywhere else (…which is basically to say, because of the money).
Without any glimmer of hope for a brighter future like in 2018 or 2019, good luck.
My guess is that they will treat this off-season similar to this past one. Look for "value" signings on 1 year type deals and move any that produce at the trade deadline.
Maybe the young pitching develops into a strength and we end the season feeling like the starting rotation will be ready to win in 2026, but unless they pivot to some degree, I really don't see them spending big (ever under current ownership), but next year even moreso.
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2 hours ago, Falstaff said:
I agree that Getz is going to be here so it's a moot point to discussing canning him.
1- Jerry has to keep Tony and himself away from White Sox player development
2- Sign at least 2 of the following UFA's: Pete Alonzo, Gleyber Torres, Alex Bregman, and take a look at Harrison Bader if the price is right.
3- Trade Crochet
4- Trade Robert jr .
5- Buyout Moncada's last year, if they can't sign any free agents then keep him at 3rd
6- Over haul International Scouting
7- Hire Sergio Santos as skipper, find the next Charlie Manuel batting coach out there.
8- Getz brings in an ex-GM of his choosing to assist him so not to get pantsed in trades. No input from Jerry or Tony.
9- Lower ticket prices by 50%
10- MLB enacts an emergency 1 year clause to allow the White to move from the tenth pick in round 1 to the 1st pick of the draft.
Is there any reason to suspect that the White Sox will be an active player in free agency? Not signing cast-offs, but actual impact type players?
Does a season this awful alter the outlook of the organization? Continue to build via the minor league system, but you can't have the worst major league team in history as a result. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable balance to strike.
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12 hours ago, Johno said:
When this horrific season finally ends, i believe the first move this organization needs to do is hire a manager that is respected by everyone in MLB. I would say Terry Franconia is that guy. For those who say fire Getz and the entire front office, i think we all realize that’s not going to happen, so i’m going to pivot to the manager. This team has basically become the laughing stock of ALL of sports at this time, that’s why bringing in a manager that is respected by all must take place for us to have any chance of landing any sort of free agent talent in the offseason.
The White Sox already eliminated him from candidacy since he's not currently in uniform.
Obviously short-sighted.
If Francona wants to return to managing, he'll have options. Even if the White Sox changed their minds, why would we expect the them to be more attractive than other options?
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So he can't hit, doesn't know basic fundamentals.....everything is falling into place. I can see him sticking around awhile.
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13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
It makes more sense than hiring Getz. Considering his previous titles, Getz either bears some responsibility for the previous failure, or was a coffee boy. Either way, it should have made him unqualified, and he is proving that in real time.
Given the lack of player development, it's still ridiculous that Getz got this job.
It's just another example of how bad this organization is.
I don't think it's a reach to suggest a team that is about to lose 120 games should clean house, including the GM, but in this organization, it's Getz's job until Reinsdorf sells the team.
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17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
Roster expansion is only 2 slots now, and they went with Iriarte and DeLoach.
Ah, thanks...I didn't realize that.
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17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
The Sox may well have room to improve 50 WINS from 24 to 24, and still not make the playoffs.
It's so bad...and it doesn't have to be, but ownership is worse than the current roster
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34 minutes ago, Tony said:
That's one of the other crazy things.
Say the Sox finish with a 37-125 record, which seems very possible, given their 31 wins right now.
The biggest single season swing in wins in the divisional era are the D'Backs, who had 35 more wins in 99 than they did in 98.
If the Sox matched that in 2025, they would be 72-90 next year 😂
72-90 would mean massive improvement over the current product.
They need to be able to score 3-4 runs consistently, not the 0-2 runs they are doing way too often AND their young pitching would need to be reliable for them to make a significant jump.
Assuming they rely primarily on rookie/young unproven MLB talent again next season, it's hard to see them not losing at least 100 games, even with some improvement. They would need to surprise us with something unexpected like keeping Crochet and Robert (while getting them performing at all-star levels), making an unexpected significant addition or their young players avoiding rookie development
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Why wouldn't they just keep them both with the roster expanded? At this point...none of this matters I guess.
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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:
If they cannot develop their own players, then this rebuild will turn out worse than the last one, as they got an impressive set of talent in the trades last time and they had multiple top 5 draft picks.
So yes, they will have to go through a few cycles of this process, developing guys and trading them away hunting for even better returns, to find enough talent to be competitive, which is why this could easily be a 5+ year process.
And if they continue to be unable to develop position player talent and unwilling to spend on top flight performers, this process could easily continue forever - there have been more than a few franchises that have been stuck in the waste bin for a decade+ - the Rockies, Pirates, Marlins, and Royals come to mind, and yeah the White Sox are pretty regularly getting compared to those teams. A team that can develop pitching but can't develop hitters to save their jobs is the Mariners, and they had about a 20 year playoff drought.
Yep, can't disagree. If they are going to sell us on being a small market team, they need to develop talent everywhere, not just left handed pitchers. Else they will be a continuous uncompetitive team.
White Sox should be doing both though - spending and developing,
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27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
1. There are always realistic off-season signings who contribute to teams. Jurickson Profar is being paid $1 million this season and has been amazing. These signing will not reshape a roster, but it is also unusual for the White Sox to be as bad with their signings as they have been. What I have been watching for 1 calendar year now - Domestic Violence Enthusiast Chris Getz will talk about the importance of defense, or of leadership, but I have yet to hear him once talk about the importance of working a count, drawing walks, or getting on base. They should not be so consistently bad at their offense, and I think the reason is that they look for this super aggressive, swing at everything and hit it on the ground player format, you know, like David Eckstein, and this is the offense you get when you try to find 12 of those.
2. No, they cannot currently count on Montgomery and should not do so. He should clearly be back in the minors and he has to earn a callup. Whether it's injury or something else, don't leave spot open for him, he isn't a big leaguer right now.
3. I think Quero probably breaks camp with the big league team. He should catch full time. Maybe he gets sent down for a little time for service time manipulation, but yeah Quero has earned a chance at the big leagues. Go ahead and pencil him in.
If their offense could score 3-4 runs (still not enough) vs. 0-3 most days next season, that is their best path towards being around 100 losses vs. 120 assuming their young pitching is able to keep them in most games.
I do agree that I would guess another 2-3 1 year type deals for an OF, maybe a 3B type and another 1-2 starting pitchers to compete next season. That's probably it, but they should be spending. I'm not holding my breath on that happening though and, even when they do, it will be with handcuffs.
I would not start the season with any of their young players and would manipulate service time.
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36 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Quite Simply, for an organization this bereft of talent, "Players returned in a trade for Gerrit Crochet + having $25 million to spend" is a better situation than having a good Gerrit Crochet and spending $25 million on him. The same calculus was correctly made for Cease and he brought back a couple of the players you think are part of the potential future rotation, it's no different with Crochet.
Any ideas on who they would spend $$ on if they trade Crochet?
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19 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:
Because JR has made it clear as recently as last August at his press conference where he said the Sox won't be giving out long term deals to pitchers. Without one if they don't deal Crochet he leaves as a free agent in two years.
That's the flaw in this "rebuild". If Noah Schultz, Drew Thorpe or Hagan Smith work out, we'll be talking about trading them in 2-3 years as well. I'm not sure how sustainable building a team around pitching that will be traded if they are good will be.
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48 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
Their attempts to address the offense thus far gives every indication they don’t have the ability to recognize that particular skill. Since Getz was hired initially, who have the White Sox developed that has come to the major leagues and met or surpassed what was originally projected? Maybe Burger, and they flipped him for garbage. Not Vaughn. Not Eloy. Not Moncada. Not even Robert. And just about everyone else has been below replacement level.
Yeah, if their plan is to sign guys like DeJong, trade for borderline MLB backups like Lopez, Fletcher, etc., there's no reason to see this improving.
If they trade their best offensive weapon in Robert, and then lean on guys like Montgomery/Quero, just seems like we are asking too much of them early on.
Barfield says they need to address (improve) the offense. Just not sure I'm understanding how they plan on doing this without impacting their pitching and not spending money.
It's hard to be a White Sox fan.
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I heard Barfield say that the White Sox would be looking to address their offense in the off-season....
OK, makes sense. The offense has at least 6 for sure outs almost every day and their better hitters would be amongst the worst on most average hitting teams. It's a historically bad offense capable of being shut out everyday and scoring 3 runs in a game is considered an outburst.
Questions....
How is this going to happen?
- By all accounts, they don't appear interested in spending this off-season. Are there any realistic off-season free agent signings that aren't light hitting IF types? Is there any chance they would sign a veteran, even overpay, to improve the offense? Who are realistic candidates?
- They may trade Luis Robert this off-season. He has had a bad season. His trade value is probably down significantly and he is now seen as a talented player who is also injury prone and an underachieving OF with a questionable contract....If they trade him, it will probably be motivated by saving $$$ than it is returning talent. Their best bet is to hold Robert and move him next trading deadline if he stays healthy and returns to an elite level. That's probably the best way to improve the offense is to get him right, but will they do that with a motivation to move $$$?
- They will likely trade Crochet and that's probably the best guess as to how they plan to improve their offense, but teams are reluctant to trade top young talent these days. Even if the Sox got what is considered to be a good return, we're still talking about young players who may/may not be ready for the majors and/or who are still unproven talent. If he traded, I would guess that 1 player in return would be ready for next season and maybe they get a 2nd player who isn't far away.
- Can they count on Montgomery for next season given his struggles for this season?
- When will Quero be on the major league roster? Is he likely to start the season in the majors or will he be up in May+? If he a full-time catcher or will they let him DH/1B at times and pair him with Lee?
- Is there anyone else from the minor league system that is a legitimate prospect and not an average one who may/may not pan out? I consider guys like Baldwin, Ramos (and Bush, Nastrini, probably Cannon from the pitching side)....
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Pitching is the strength of their minor leagues. Do they plan on trading from strength to address their hitting?
- Why not keep Crochet and go with him, Thorpe, Shultz, Hagen Smith (both later in the season), Cannon and some veteran on a year deal (similar to what they did this past off-season)?
Most expect next season to be similar to this season. Over 100 losses, maybe not an all-time bad season....but I think we have become conditioned to expect the White Sox to operate like they are a smaller market type team.
Why not actually consider keeping a young rotation intact (meaning keep Crochet) and actually look to bring in a few free agents to improve the offense? They can still keep building their farm system through the draft, but they are busy selling us on a 5 year plan that will eventually lead them to trading any young pitchers who work out from this rebuild, meaning they wont' have more than than 2 year window before we're back to this again....
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On 8/8/2024 at 2:12 PM, Tony said:
Sure you can. Why are we OK with them being bad for the next 3-4 years? Fans spend money on the team, the owner doesn't share that same interest. While the end result may still be the same...there is a big difference between going .500 and playing .239 baseball.
Jerry got the Sox into this mess. We should absolutely expect more.
Agreed. We have become conditioned to accept that the White Sox must go through some elongated rebuilding process without any guarantee of return except 100+ loss seasons for this year and next year.
Will this team spend on any sought after free agents?
Will they keep their current young pitching talent?
If the answer is no, what is the point of any of this? The organization isn't serious and won't sustain winning outside of short stretches should everything work out with their own self-induced limitations.
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On 8/8/2024 at 1:45 PM, Texsox said:
I can't see bringing in anyone high dollar until 2026 or 2027.
What is considered "high dollar"? The White Sox don't spend on that type of talent.
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On 8/8/2024 at 12:49 PM, Chisoxfn said:
I can't disagree with it.
To a point, it's not wise to be a big spender in free agency when you're rebuilding.
You also can't let things to get a point where you are the worst team in MLB history.
You can rebuild and spend some money without making moves that handicap the future.
You also don't have a budget so the idea of a rebuild that goes this badly and will likely take as long as it will to get back to some form of respectability (not even competing for anything) is flat out laughable.
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24 minutes ago, joejoesox said:
you trade Crochet because he's a huge liability to get hurt again. you've already overworked him (by A LOT) by any measurable standard.
this reminds me of when they traded Sale, it was only a matter of time before he got hurt again. he's gonna be traded before spring training and you'll probably get a really good return for him assuming you don't blow his arm out
also, Schultz isnt close to being MLB ready, he's still on a 4IP/game restriction lol
This is why we can't have anything good. We're a major league team, supposedly a larger market team, who operates on the possibility of trading players because they may get hurt in the future and we're operating on a 3 - 5 year plan to get the team back into some form of competitiveness. Crazy that we are conditioned to think that rebuilding is needed to this level while also accepting that we won't pay for our talent and will need to do this again once it's time to spend money.
Maybe the White Sox do trade Crochet for some prospects that everyone gets excited about, but do the Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, other big teams routinely operate like this and get us conditioned to just accept this?
White Sox w/ 10 of top 79 fWAR pitchers
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted · Edited by spiderman
White Sox rotation options for next season
Missing anyone? Lots more depth, good overall potential, but probably 2 years away from being competitive with upside
- Crochet (but likely to be traded)..maybe a player they receive in a trade for him.
- Thorpe
- Cannon
- D.Martin
- Sean Burke / Ky Bush / Nastrini/Eder
- Schultz (after May)
- Hagen Smith (maybe later in 2024)
- Flexen (or some similar veteran)