spiderman

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 11:45 AM) i think one thing shouldn't be lost in these discussions about whom the white sox are trading with and why. I, personally, think it's completely valid to identify who your tradeable assets are and to target specific prospects, leveraging a perceived value as much as your can while still getting the guys you want. I see a lot of posts about tading with the orioles or red sox or yankees, but in reality what's the point if those orgs are only going to offer their #8 and #10 prospects? if the yankees won't part with banuelos for danks, and you don't partiucularly like guys like noesi or sanchez or heathcott then why pull the trigger? one of kenny's first comments re: the trade of santos for molina was that molina was one of their top tier targets on their so-called "short list". he traded a replaceable commodity, albeit a solid asset, for someone they view as a very high quality prospect. you can't argue with that. you also aren't being a good armchair gm if youre just throwing out names saying things like "i wish the white sox wouldve talked to the red sox about santos cuz gordon edes tweeted this! we couldve got kalish! lars anderson! reddick! middlebrooks!"... barf.... give me one prospect with a chance to be a #2 starter (ie a well above average MLBer) as opposed to 3 lower division types. i like kenny's approach, and anyone who's been calling for a "let the youngens play" approach should like it to. with where we are, you make everyone available and see what you are offered. much like Beane is doing with Gio and Alderson is doing with Neise/Ike (Ike, depending on what you read) as you never know if someone's gonna blow you away. I see merit is listening if someone wants to talk viciedo, even if "it doesnt make sense" but the offer would have to be ridiculous to take. lest, i digress, thats not really what this post is about. the reality is that kenny is doing the right thing, by idenifying whom he's most willing to deal and targeting specific prospects that his scouting/management team has identified as peeps on their short list. getting equal value doesnt necessarily mean the world at this point when you're going backwards. if the Reds offer Grandal, a guy maybe keeny sees as the catcher of the future, for Floyd don't you do it? dont you make that leap and say "screw if this isnt equal value i'm getting 1 piece that i want for someone who doesnt fit in my long term plans". i'm on board hugely with santos and nestor because of that very reason, and am for one excited for nestor molina this year to see what he's got. Williams did trade a solid asset in Santos for a quality prospect in Molina, but I really hope that the White sox weren't over-rating him. I realize Toronto has a deep system, but I don't think he was cracking their top 10 list, and most projections on his future have him as a middle of the rotation starter at best. Granted, if Reed is ready to close, it's a good idea to stockpile as many pitchers with quality as possible so this does have the potential to be a good trade as long as this wasn't a Williams reach.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:55 PM) I am so tired of Sox fans bashing Jerry Reinsdorf.. The Sox has been in the top 10 in payroll many times but the fans continue not to show up to the ballpark. I been to the ballpark many times while we were contending first place, on a warm sunny night and the stadium was still half full.. If Kenny Williams is making moves based upon fan reaction, which I don't believe he is, then you would have justification to at least blame the fans indirectly. As to the current state of this team, Williams deserves most of the blame (if you remove the blame from players with a history of producing, not producing) - the farm system has produced some players on the major league team, but it's amongst the worst in the majors and add to that a team with a payroll that has to be cut, in part to moves that proved costly, and you have the makings of a team that will have overrated players (in terms of contract vs. production), little help coming from the minors and the need to move the veteran pieces with some talent in order to shed payroll and replenish the youth in the minors.

Chicago Tribune Scouting Report This report is less than flattering - basically says the Sox over overrating this guy because the guy they got from Toronto likes him, and that he projects as a back of the rotation starter.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Addison Reed would be my inclination. 108 minor league innings with 155 k's 1.41 ERA .74 WHIP Agree. I would hope they learned from last year too not put players (Thornton) in positions that they haven't been in. Ideally, Reed claims the job in spring training.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:19 AM) Because it is still in the FO's plans to bring him back. I have firsthand knowledge that this is part of their plan granted some team doesnt give him 4 years at 15 million. But hey, continue with your statements. Also, based upon your projected pitching staff in the other thread where you no longer have Danks and Floyd, why would Buerhle willingingly return for less years (and money) for a team that appears to be quasi-rebuilding? Why not take more years and more money and sign with Florida or Washington?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:19 AM) Because it is still in the FO's plans to bring him back. I have firsthand knowledge that this is part of their plan granted some team doesnt give him 4 years at 15 million. But hey, continue with your statements. Is Buerhle going to come back and lose one year that he could have gotten elsewhere and potentially less money in the first 3 years?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) If they traded who i think they will trade here is the lineup you will most likely see: 1. De Aza 2. Alexei 3. Dunn 4. Konerko 5. Viciedo 6. AJP/Flowers 7. Rios 8. Gordo 9. Morel 1. Buehrle 2. Humber 3. Peavy 4. Sale 5. Stewart/Whoever You dont think that team at least has a chance to compete within this division? The only they compete is if Dunn returns to a 30HR+ player and Vicedio replaces Quentin's production. That offense would have to be very good to hold up a pitching staff that looks like that. I'd say that this would be a 75 win team.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:02 AM) The Sox are not going to resign Buehrle. Why is there so much speculation that they will?! Let it go, people. I don't think they will resign Buerhle. I know many think that Reinsdorf could jump in and work something out, but I just don't feel that it's smart to give him a 3-4 year deal at his age with all of the payroll concerns already existing.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:00 AM) Yes, if Mark is re-signed, then I think one of Danks/Floyd is traded but not both, and the most logical one to trade is Danks because he is a free agent sooner and also probably gets a better return than Floyd. I really don't care if there are 3 lefties in the rotation. If Mark is not re-signed, then I can see both getting traded. Ok, so your barometer on whether to rebuild or not seems to fall on whether they resign Mark Buerhle. Is that fair to say?

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:42 AM) So far these winter meetings are so damn boring. I hope things pick up today for the Sox, as well as for every other ball club. Do you want things to pick up for the White Sox? They aren't likely so sign any meaningfull free agents, and if you hear anything, it's probably the beginning of a rebuilding process which may upset several on this forum.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) If the Sox are going to re-sign Mark, then they probaby aren't trading both Danks and Floyd. Probably one of them since Peavy, Sale, and Humber are locked into the rotation, but I don't see the Sox shelling out money for Mark and then sticking Stewart or whoever in the rotation. If the White Sox resign Buerhle, wouldn't the Sox trade Danks to avoid A) having 3 left handers in their rotation and B) to avoid losing him in free agency without getting a few good prospects back this off-season? If we are to believe all the speculation, it seems unlikely that Buehrle will be back, and Danks/Floyd (maybe both) are to be moved this off-season.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:24 AM) I would like to see him stay I wouldn't be against it when you consider than Konerko, and Quentin were the only two reliable run producing threats on the team, and moving him puts even more pressure on Dunn, Rios, and Viceido to produce. I just don't see it as being realistic though.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:09 AM) Does anyone think there's a chance the Sox sign him to an extension? If so, what sort of money would he get? His potential is very high, but it seems like injuries at least have held him back. Highly unlikely. With Rios, De Aza and Viceido on the team, and the team's payroll issues, it's unlikely they will spend $8 million (or so) on Quentin when they feel that Viceido is ready and can put up good power numbers himself. Like Rios or not, he's going to play and Lillibridge may be the 4th OF in the mix.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 08:07 AM) I'm thinking the opposite. They can't sign Mark until they move some salaries. Why would Buerhle want to return to the White Sox if they are going to move Danks and/or Floyd along with Quentin and possibly Thornton? To return here, he'd probably have to take less years than what he can get on the open market, so I just don't see it as realistic that he would return here for a lesser contract AND to a team in transition. From the White Sox perspective, why give him a 3 year deal (maybe even 4) if it results in having to move Danks/Floyd, younger pitchers who are likely to be more effective than Buerhle in a few years? If one of the goals is to shed payroll, what better way to do that then letting Buerhle walk? They can somewhat replace him with Chris Sale as well.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 06:48 PM) I wonder if the Sox are talking to Marlins about AJ. Ozzie always liked him and he could platoon with Buck, or maybe Ozzie doesn't want Buck to be his everyday starter. I don't think they'd get much for AJ but they'd rid his salary which should be good enough. Florida may make some sense since they seem to be throwing money all over the place. If they want to add a lefty bat, the Sox would still have to eat half of that salary, but if Ozzie isn't sick of him, there could be some sense to that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) \Bingo. And the Sox would love to deal him if they get the chance. The problem is no one will want him. The Sox owe him something like $6 million for next season so they would probably have to assume at least half of the money in order to move the 2nd half of the contract, and get nothing more than a marginal prospect in return.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 05:58 PM) Peavy saying he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding process due to the team struggling and having a bloated payroll is like Tigers Woods sleeping with 100 women and then telling Elin that he doesn't want to be in a troubled marriage. Dear Jake....shut up before you pull a muscle in your mouth. I'm not sure that it's Peavy (assuming that the story is true).... The list of candidates include: AJ, Konerko, Peavy, Thornton. I have a hard time believing that the three players - Dunn, Rios and Peavy - most responsible for the payroll squeeze and underachieving team would have the nerve to request a trade. I could be wrong, and wouldn't be shocked if I were incorrect, but I would think it's one of the 3 names other than Peavy that i mentioned above, and, guess what, if Williams decides to move Floyd and/or Danks, along with losing Buerhle, what sense does it make to keep Konerko or AJ?

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) The Royals are willing to trade Soria for a starting pitcher. I was thinking, hey, we always trade with KC! But Soria's due $6 million next year. That doesn't help much. Plus, aren't the Sox okay as far as righties go in the bullpen? The White Sox already have a closer in Sergio Santos. Why would they add Soria for a starting pitcher?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) He is if 14 teams are interested in a workhorse type LH starter like M56. 14 teams may like Mark Buerhle, but only 3 or 4 may be willing to give him 3 or 4 years at the money he'll command.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) I'm sure Cubs fans will say the hand of Theo got Santo in. If the guy failed to make the HOF time after time, why was suddenly now worthy? That's what I don't understand about the process. To me, if you're HOF worthy, there isn't any debate.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 10:33 AM) Yankees interested in SP not signed beyond 2013 because of 2014 luxury tax, need a lefty in pen. Danks and Thornton mentioned. Blue Jays have been looking at Beckham. Link I'm not a big fan of Beckham, but what's the point in moving him now? His value can't be very high around the league. If I'm Williams, I keep him (unless somebody else just completely gets stupid in their compsenation offer for him) and make him earn his job in spring training, whether that's competition from one of the players acquired from Florida or maybe Brent Lillibridge, who I know may not be as good defensively as Beckham was, and was incredibly valuable in a utility role last season, but is not somebody I want to keep in that role at the expense of Beckham's struggles at the plate.

Chicago Tribune White Sox Story

If we are to believe the rumors, the White Sox are open for business, and are set to embark on a rebuilding of sorts. Carlos Quentin seems all but certain to be moved, and it's possible that all 3 pitchers rumored - John Danks, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton - could all be moved.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Nov 30, 2011 -> 10:08 AM) not surprising. this is a rebuild whether or not anyone wants to admit it. Agreed. They may not use that word, and they may tell us that if Adam Dunn and Alex Rios have good years in 2012, things will be fine, but now is the time to rebuild the farm system and start the process of retooling this team. I love Danks, and I wouldn't be upset if they signed him to a long-term deal, but he is probably their best trading asset and it may be too hard to pass up on the potential they receive in return.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 11:20 AM) I agree. At 29 and with this contract he is incredibly valuable. If a small market contender or heck, any contender, was in need of a closer, the Sox would be foolish not to listen. But the asking price starts at 2 top 50 prospects plus a 3rd prospect whose a top 150 or so prospect. Its a steep asking price but given the financially friendly deal and his talent, it only makes sense. From the Sox perspective, it gives you more talent, which we ultimately need. If they plan on trading Danks and Floyd, this team is going to have to rebuild so they might as well move almost anyone who is not going be able to contribute 3 to 4 years down the road (since at a minimum you are talking about a 3 to 4 year rebuilding period if you move Danks/Floyd for spects). Agreed, if the Sox do end up moving Danks and/or Floyd and lose Buerhle, what's the point in keeping Santos on a team that would be challenged to win 70 games? Try and load up with as many young prospects as possible.