spiderman

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) I agree. Move those two guys, get prospects, promote Viciedo. Also do something with Lillibridge -- DeAza must be a better player -- AJ?? I have no idea of his trade value and he is a 5/10 guy, but I bet he would waive it. This team is going to be a 23 man roster equivelent next year. Offer Mark a contract for next year, see what he does. I watched game last night, that is one boring team. Painful. If the White Sox need to be creative next season with their payroll, which I would expect to be reduced with Jackson and Pierre (and possibly Buerhle) coming off the books (I think that's about $12 million, but closer to $10 since the Sox weren't paying all of Pierre's contract)...although if they choose to resign Buerhle, a lot of the money (and then some possibly) saved from Jackson/Pierre would go into him. Assuming that there is a small increase between resigning Buerhle and losing Jackson/Pierre, it's still possible (and maybe likely) that Williams will need to shed additional salary to meet next year's budget and/or to attempt at improving the team. That could mean Quentin still gets moved in the off-season. The same could be said of Danks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) I think BECAUSE of the salary commitment this year, you'd be crazy to think that Williams would sell off parts if they're 7 back on July 28th. There isn't a significant amount of money to be saved by trading away expiring contracts and money that can be saved next year can be just as easily dealt in the offseason. I think they are going to have to be about 6 games below .500, perhaps with Peavy injured again and another starter down to really get the ball rolling on it. I think they'll let this team give it one last hurrah, we'll see them stumble down the stretch like has become accustomed in the Ozzie era, and he'll end up in Florida next year (while hopefully taking his entire coaching staff, sans Cooper). Does this team deserve one last hurrah? They have shown through about 100 games to be roughly a .500 caliber team in a bad division. It's tough to give up in this division, but does trading Edwin Jackson and/or Carlos Quentin mean that they are? Should Williams re-tool some (moving Jackson and/or Quentin) to add perhaps 2-3 quality prospects that can help the team next season (plus Viceido) at a low cost? Remember, this team is still going to be hampered by Dunn, Rios and Peavy's contract's so the White Sox, with their attendance down as well, are going to have to find ways to be creative. As I have mentioned in other threads, the White Sox could argue that moving Jackson, and moving back to a 5 man rotation, makes the rotation stronger for the remainder of the season. The starter's innings are currently down, and although they are banking on Peavy staying healthy, they could go to a 4 man rotation come September. In my opinion, if they can land 2 (or maybe 3 if I can daydream) B level prospects for Jackson and Quentin, I make the move.

It's hard to believe that after close to 100 games, the team's management (manager and GM) appear content to stay with the same group of struggling players, game after game, and watch the same tired result. Adam Dunn should be on the bench for the rest of the season. That's who Viceido should be playing for.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 11:02 AM) Am I the only one who wants to keep EJAX? Yesterdays start aside, the guy has nasty stuff. Sure he sucks sometimes, so does everyone on the staff. The sox lack a true ace. He's got great stuff, but isn't consistent. Yesterday was an example of what he could do when he puts things together, but more often than not, he leaves you wanting more. The White Sox do lack a true ace, but I doubt Jackson is anything more than a #3 type of starter.

QUOTE (The Baconator @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 09:40 AM) First time we've beaten Verlander since September of '08. That one felt very good to see offensive production versus one of the best in the league to kickstart our second half. I know some people have been clamoring for losses out of the gate so make moves to prepare for next year. I, myself, like to see wins. Winning is fun. I'm not ready to pack it in for the season. Don't stop now, boys! Knowing this White Sox team, they will now lose the next 2 games after beating Verlander. These results wouldn't make much sense - beating a guy like Verlander who's been lights out and then losing to ther other guys sounds like a White Sox thing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 09:23 AM) http://www.beerleaguer.com/whitesox/2011/0...in-jackson.html Some good arguments why Edwin won't be traded b4 the deadline. Maybe they can run him through waivers in August and still work out something, but that's a lot less likely. Apparently not a big fan of the Hudson/Holmberg deal!!! I would understand why/if they didn't trade Jackson. As was mentioned, Peavy is always questionable at best, and the starting rotation has been the least of the concerns for the White Sox. Trade Jackson, you go back to 5 starters, but it could be 4 rather quickly if Peavy doens't hold up. A dependable starting rotation, also including Humber who hasn't done this over a full season and the erratic Gavin Floyd, then becomes a possible issue. On the other hand, the White Sox have about 15 days to decide if they want to move Jackson via trade. If they think they can survive the madness of Peavy for about 1 month, if they think getting back to a 5 man rotation actually strengthens the rotation (vs the 6 days), and pick up a piece who can help next season (given the constraints of the White Sox payroll, Wiliams is going to need to find cheap help, and, in this case, could be a solid prospect as well). If this team continues to flounder about 3 games under .500 like it's done most of the last month or so, and Williams concludes that this team is what he's been seeing all season (as opposed to what he thought he had), I think it's a smart move to look at dealing both Jackson and Quentin.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) They are shopping more than Edwin...... I assume you are referring to Carlos Quentin? It would be interesting to see if the White Sox were really willing to shake things up and move both Quentin/Jackson. The best part of moving Quentin is that you don't need a replacement with Viceido on the verge of breaking in. Between moving Jackson and Quentin, they could bring in 2 or 3 pieces for next season to help balance the payroll and who have good upside.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writ...ml?eref=writers This was from yesterday but I didnt see it posted yet. Not surprising,but what does everyone want for him? He has to be one of the better starting pitchers potentially available via trade over the next 3 weeks and being a free agent, and all the dead money (Rios, Peavy and Dunn) tied into a small number of players, Williams has to be able to find cheap talent and he may be able to acquire a younger piece or two. I'm doubtful that the Sox would be able to acquire an A level prospect, but maybe a B and C level talent for him. The wildcard in this is Jake Peavy though - I think Kenny Williams can take Jackson and claim he's actually strengthening the team by allowing it to return to a normal 5 man rotation after getting the starters rest for a good portion of the first half of the season; however, can he make this argument if Peavy continues to look burnt out, in effect, giving the Sox only 4 starters for the last 2 months? Obviously, this concern could be alleviated some if the White Sox acquired a starting pitcher (either as the key piece in the exchange or a stop-gap veteran who doesn't make much money and who is a free agent after the season). Talking a bit more about what the Sox should target in return, I'd say it's quite simple. Look at their board/rankings of minor league prospects around the league (I'm assuming that we're talking about a NL team since the Sox wouldn't want to strengthen a potential opposition team in the AL) and take, regardless of position, the offer for the best return of young players. Starting pitching is actuallly in pretty good shape for next season assuming Buehrle is resigned to so with Floyd, Danks, Peavy (assuming he's healthy) and potentially Chris Sale. I'm not suggesting to turn down more pitching - I wouldn't - but don't pass on good offensive talent if it's the better deal,.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) From May 1st through yesterday, Beckham was at .267/.337/.386/.723. From May 20th through yesterday, Beckham was at .275/.345/.389/.734. Assuming this continues, there are a lot of changes that should be made in the offseason. The only change I'd make at this exact moment is firing Walker. I understand that offensive production throughout the entire league is down, but there are some pretty good hitters on this team who are doing absolutely nothing whatsoever. At some point, even if it's the same message, hearing it from a different voice will do wonders for a lot of these guys. I agree with firing Walker. Some move should be made. I don't think Walker's really to blame, and hitting coaches aren't extremely valuable, but something needs to be done.

I predict a whole LOT of nothing.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) lmao, i should bump the 'we can still turn it around in the second half' posts from the last 4-5 years we know what we have, a team that plays poorly in the 2nd half In fairness though, we did get to play the Yankees and Red Sox some in the first half this season. In year's past, we would get them over a two week period (along with minny). This season, I believe both teams still have to come here, I'm guessing we're not going there anymore.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 05:16 PM) If no changes are made during the break. I don't care to watch the Sox the rest of the season.... No point. If they don't give a s***, why should I? Maybe I can save $30 a month on mlb.tv... I guess, given that they have played the same bad offense day after day, when they've had the option of promoting Viceido now for weeks and haven't, they are either true believers in what they have, or just going to go down with the ship they have constructed. I get it's not realistic to overhaul your team, a team you thought would be a contender, in July, but we've seen nothing, but cotinued patience and that's resulted in Dunn batting 3rd/4th in the lineup with no results and hitting .170ish overall, Pierre being mediocre at the top of the lineup until recently, Rios looking disinterested, and so on. It's become a tired act, but one that they have decided to play on a continuous loop. I'm just not expecting much to change because it hasn't.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 05:04 PM) We have a second half to play. It can still be turned around. So let's not be burning everyone at the stake please It could turn around, but we're 90 games in. Sometimes, you are what you are.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 08:03 AM) @Buster_ESPN Buster Olney Lots of rumors swirling about managerial change with the White Sox, but high-ranking source says change with Ozzie not being considered. 10 hours ago via web Given their reluctance to make any changes to the team this season, I still think this is the most realistic outcome.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) So we line it up so our three worst starters face the Tigers? This has to be matchups based, right?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 10:36 AM) He said in the Trib today that The Twins are always built to win the AL Central and not the World Series, while the Sox are always built to win the World Series and not the AL Central. Rosenbloom is a simpleton, and he also is the most miserable columnist that I've seen. He's never happy about anything. As for this quote, it sounds great, really deep and clever, except it's not. It's actually a pretty stupid comment from the White Sox perspectivewhen you consider that for the Sox to win the World Series, they need to win the AL Central in most every season when you're in the same league as the Red Sox and Yankees. He's right about the Twins who can't get past the Yankees, but this is Rosenbloom being negative.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:41 PM) There really are no sure things. I think he's going to be a hitting machine, but I could be wrong, too. Beckham never spent enough time in the minors to get a feel for how his numbers would translate from that level to the bigs, but I was front-and-center on his bandwagon based on his '09 performance. Haven't quite yet given up on Gordo becoming that player, though I will soon if nothing changes. No sure thing, but he hit well last year when he was here, and is having a very productive season in the minors. He's a pretty good prospect, and, by all accounts, is a hard worker. I think his time has come, or should have come.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:37 PM) Quentin--while he can be an MVP quality player at times--isn't getting any cheaper or younger, has injury concerns, and is extremely streaky. With that being said, I think you have to accept any trade offer involving good young talent for Quentin. Agreed. You can't trade our crap unless we want somebody else's crap in return. Quentin is putting up good power numbers although he remains as streaky as ever. The White Sox haven't been able to get him to sign a long-term deal, and Viceido is ready to play in the majors. With the Sox probably strained from a payroll perspective, if the White Sox are able to get a younger player(s) in return for Quentin, it's something Williams really has to look at. This is also true of Edwin Jackson, but that one is a little more complicated in that Peavy has to show he's healthy still at the end of the month.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) Agreed. But I would hope that any scenario that involves Oz leaving mid-season, that Cora and Walker would be automatically included. Cora would be gone for sure, I think Walker is likely gone as well given the struggles of the hitters. I have no idea what, if anything, is going to happen though.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:27 PM) Oh for sure, and thank god for that. Personally, whoever our next manager is, I hope our bench coach isn't a mini version of him. I get the feeling that Baines would prefer to stay in Chicago, regardless of whoever the manager is (not like whoever the 1B coach is a pressing matter). Cox is a solid 3B coach, but it's no big loss if he leaves. Walker, I would have to imagine, would be gone for sure no matter what. There is just no way to justify keeping him if Ozzie is gone. Coop is really the only coach that needs to stay here for life unless a different team wants to give him a shot at being manager. If a change was made mid-season, I'm not sure how that impact the current coaching staff. My guess would be that Cora would be gone, maybe you get another new coach, but I think the makeover would come in the off-season. I would hope that Cooper would be safe under any new manager.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:17 PM) That this is even an issue is beyond me. Imagine if this was a big deal back in high school when you would add "is gay" after someone's name on a paper. Agreed. Non-issue.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:13 PM) My question is how strong the relationship is between the coaching staff and if Coop and Oz are tied at the hip. I know Cora and Guillen are thought to be tied at the hip.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:09 PM) Ozzie deserves to be fired after the way he managed the game today. I'm not sure what to expect, whether it's nothing (which has been the standard operating procedure all season), fire the hitting coach, or do something a bit more drastic like getting rid of Cora/Guillen.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:06 PM) And let him know very clearly that you want him to $tay. Coop is a still under-appreciated godsend. Agreed, don't understand the logic of not already ensuring he's part of the coaching staff next year.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 05:54 PM) I would give it to Coop Pass on that. He does a great job with the pitching staff. Let him focus on that.