spiderman

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) How is this team going to get any better by trading only the guys with little value? Open for business means that anyone is on the block, the one exception would proabably be Beckham because of his current value in relation to overall potential. This team isn't going to get much better making the same type of salary dump deals KW has made over the last few years, we need to move the big chips to get a big return that will impove this team. Let's face it, the White Sox are not going to rebuild the team, they are going to continue try to win, but we've reached a crossroads here - we need to find out whether Viceido/Flowers can be expected (not guaranteed, see Beckham) to contribute to next year's team.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 11:56 AM) The starting rotation, around which the team was built and who many predicted would be among MLB's best, has the worst ERA in the AL. I think we overated it. We expected Peavy to be a frontline starter, but in fact, has been horrible this season. The other guys - Buerhle, and Floyd - were expected to be 2 or 3 type starter pitchers, and they've been horrible. Only Danks has been consistent all season (until his last 2 starts) and lived up to pre-season expectations, but I wouldn't say he's more than a borderline #2 and probably a #3 starter. When Garcia has been as good, if not better than 3 of your starters, your team is in trouble. Realistically, this team lacks a #1 starter, and maybe a #2 starter, although Danks COULD be that.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 11:00 AM) This is exciting news! But I'll believe it when the first trade papers hit the commissioner's desk. I think Kenny Williams, if true, is making the right decision, but I hardly am excited to know that the season is a waste, and, I really don't expect the Sox to get back any meaningful prospects.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 10:56 AM) You dont move Floyd, Danks, Hudson or Peavy obviously. The rest can go as far as arms. You'd like to at least keep Thornton, Putz and Santos out of the pen, but I'm sure none are untouchable. As far as bats. You keep Rios, Beckham, Quentin, Alexei and thats about it. The rest can go. You'd hope to get some serious value for Konerko if you need to move him to be honest. Your entire push should be acquiring some cheaper bats so that we can free up salary to possible buy some pitching next season. C Lee should be there push although they prob wouldnt even try to afford him. Tend to agree with your thought on pitchers - I still think the team lacks a front line starter (they have a few guys who we thought could fit in the middle of the rotation, but they haven't lived up to standards, and Peavy was supposed to be the legitimate #1 starter, but that hasn't worked). As far as hitters, Rios stays, and I don't see the Sox moving Beckham. The other guys will probably be here as well as I don't see much demand for a .200 hitter or a SS who struggles to keep his head in the game.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 10:26 AM) http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN On his ESPN Baseball Tonight Report, he indicated that A.Jones could demand a lot of interest because he makes almost no money ($500,000 this season, obviously even less now), and has hit lefties. Konerko is still owed $8 million this season so that could hurt his market value, and Olney didn't seem to expect the Sox to move Thornton.

After that win today against Cleveland, we have to keep eveyone, and make trades for add-ons. Hawk's enthusiam at the end of this game sold me. I think a 11 game winning streak is just around the corner following this catipulting win today.

If I'm Kenny Williams, I want to see Viciedo and Flowers for at least 3 full months to make a determination whether these 2 can be counted for next season (of course, there is never any certainty - see Gordan Beckham). If they don't trade A.J, let Flowers DH 4 times a week, and then use him as a cather once or twice a week, and, to play Viciedo, obviously, Konerko would need to be moved. If the White Sox can find a young SS prospect in a trade, I'm in favor. Ramirez is just not that good, and the organization needs to have higher expectations than what they are getting out of that spot. For next season, Mark Teahan has to be a backup. Why Kenny Williams gave him a 3 year deal will go down as an unsolved mystery, he is not a starting 3B....He can have some value as a backup player, but, thanks to Williams is being overpaid for that role. In the OF, we can no longer depend on Carlos Quentin. Rios shoudl be our CF for years to come. The guy just looks so graceful as a player, and things seem to come so easily to him. Hopefully, his strong play continues. We're stuck with a mediocre hitter in Pierre. So, for next season, I expect Konerko to have been traded for a decent prospect, but Kenny Williams has 3 months to decide if Viciedo and Flowers can be counted on at C/1B, and has gaping holes to address in RF, and 3B. He needs impact players, no more of the Mark Kotsay types as this is a BAD offense. Pitching, I think the Sox should look to stay where they are for the most part. If someones comes along and wants to pay for Buehle, they have to consider that, but I don't expect that to happen. Floyd has been bad, but he's under contract, and has shown the ability to get major league hitters out. I think they need to figure out how to get him on track. Daniel Hudson hasn't been very good this season in the minors, but I'm still hopeful that he can become a starter, so that may be the one move I make - either let him come in as a starter for next season (give him time this year in the rotation), or let him start as a reliever next year. Outside of that, Putz will likely be moved because of his contract, (1 year deal) for a prospect nobody has ever heard of, and Jenks won't be back so Santos needs (if they go with him) time as a closer this season. I suspect that Thornton will be kept in his 8th inning role and I don't want to move him. So, for the pitching staff, I expect it to be relatively stable for next season, they may have to add another reliever in free agency, but I think what we have now will be here for next season despite how mediocre/bad the starting rotation has been. Given the attendance drop, I suspect Williams will have to be extremely creative in addressing holes, and it's not likely to become a drastically improved offense next season, in fact, it may be about the same, but I do think he'll make some pretty interesting changes.

They are just so hard to watch because of this offense. If they have any chance of getting back to .500, they need to make some major offensive changes - whether its cutting Kotsay, sending Beckham to the minors, you can't keep sending the same failing players out there. It's unlikely that a trade will occur so the only options now are help from the minors. Tyler Flowers is hitting in the minors. Why not DH him? Can he do any worse than what we're watching?

MLB Network has the Cardinal and Reds on, I'm probably switching to that soon. I'm just so disgusted that this season is over not even 2 months into it.

It's safe to say that this game is over. Sox scoring 5 runs in a game? Ha Ha!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 15, 2010 -> 09:04 AM) If the Sox were anticipating having money for a significant hitter...that money could be evaporating with the walkup ticket sales. What they have to show for those guys is Rios and Peavy. I think I'm pretty satisfied with what we have to show from those 2 guys, especially now that JFP's found his grove. We should be back to complaining about the 2007 season and how the 2 key things that we brought in after it, Beckham and Quentin, have been debacles. Even though the starting pitching hasn't been what we thought - only John Danks has been consistently good, it's clear that it's very hard to win with an offense that is the problem. Noboby thought that A.J. would be hitting .200 or that Gordon Beckham would play his way out of the major leagues, but there have been plenty of questions about Teahan and Pierre as off-season acquistions. We knew Quentin was still a question mark - we were hoping for the MVP Candidate (or something in that ballpark) and not the guy who can't hit since. Obviously, Rios and Konerko have been extremely productive, but they can't overcome a lineup that has given very little overall.

The rotating DH idea hit a new low last night with Omar Vizquel in there.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 01:56 PM) The problem isn't Ozzie Ball, that's for another debate (whether they should be moving from a home run team to a more balanced lineup given their ballpark)....Look at the batting averages througout the lineup - no style of ball is really going to work with the struggles so many of their hitters have had. As I previously said, when most of your lineup isn't hitting, would any style work better?

As a White Sox fan, I'm pretty depressed. It's May 15th, and this team is done. I never thought it was possible to bury yourself this quickly, but they have, and this is just not a good team. Our minor league system, from my understanding, is getting better, but is hardly elite, and this major league team needs a drastic overhauling of it's offense.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 11, 2010 -> 04:01 PM) Let me ask you this. What were your expectations prior to the season? If we were 16-16 instead of 13-19 do you think we would have no chance still? I thought the White Sox had an outside chance to exceed my expectations, which were about the .500 team that you described with your 16-16 question. If they had a better record, of course I would be more optimistic of their chances, but they don't, and, in my opinion, they aren't good enough to overcome a bad start, and the hole they have dug - I just don't see them as being better than mediocre.

Just catching up on the game, hopefully (although I fear this) they aren't done scoring today.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 11, 2010 -> 08:05 PM) Sucks that we gave up a run, but at least the Twins made an absolutely idiotic decision sending Kubel. Bad decision by Minnesota, but it's not like anyone expects the White Sox to do much scoring tonight. They are beyond pathetic offensively yet again tonight so far.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:54 PM) Of course not, which is why you wait until July before taking action on a team. But I don't think the fans of those teams who assumed their teams sucked turned out to be dumb because their squad was one of the small minority who overcame absolutely sucking for the first several weeks. At some point, you are what you are. We're not quite at that point yet (I personally think the Memorial Day/June 1st region is a good time to first evaluate what your team is), but we're getting there quickly.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:38 PM) The Yankees were 21-29 in 2007 and made the playoffs. Point is the season is far from over. If the White Sox had the talent that the Yankees typically do, I'd feel better about their chances.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:51 PM) First of all, I have not stated how many games I think they will win. Second of all, we have ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY GAMES LEFT. I'm sorry, but you just do not have neither the crystal ball nor the immense evaluation skills to know whether or not 8 games can be made up with 132 left. That is literally one game every two weeks. We honestly don't know a whole lot more right now than we did at the beginning of the season. Finally, you have no idea what kinds of injuries or trades/transactions might occur between now and the end of the season. You just have no idea what could happen over the course of five months! Unless you think this team is going to play at a 80-45 clip (or something close to this), I think you're fooling yourself. I don't need immense evaluation skills to know that a team that I expect to win about 80 games isn't good enough to not only overcome a 8 game deficit, but also win close to 90 wins.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:30 PM) You're missing the entire argument however, and so are many in this thread. The Twins built a lead of 8 games or however many games they are ahead of us in FIVE WEEKS. Is it really your contention that the Sox are not capable of making that same lead up in nearly FIVE MONTHS? That is just pure foolishness. You can argue all you want that this team sucks. But that is not the same argument as "this team is out of it because of the number of games back they are at this point in the season." I don't think it's foolishness. Now, if you think the White Sox are going to win 92 games this season, I could at least understand your argument in believing that they can overcome this. I don't think they are more than about a 80 win team if things go well. I don't think team sucks - there are at least 10 teams clearly worse than they are, probably a few more. They are not good enough in my estimation to overcome a 8 game deficit.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:27 PM) Interesting snapshot, but that's what it is - a one time window snapshot. If you went to, say, 40 games, you'll find some other playoff teams below the .500 line. What if the Sox have better records than them? You make the leap of assumption here that because there are only 2 at 32 games which are that bad, that there cannot be any at 40, or 50 games, which may be below where the Sox stand at that time. The Sox are playing crappy baseball and are 8 games out - this is bad, but there is no such thing as an absolute line as to when its time to blow it up. It would be nice to think that, but history says otherwise. Personally, I will echo what someone said earlier - memorial Day Weekend is a good evaluation point. If the Sox are 8+ games out (give or take) at that time, it might be time to cut the vets loose and rebuild in June. If they are say 4 games out and playing better, maybe time to add a bat and a LOOGY. If they are somehow miraculously in a near tie for the lead, then you leave them alone for a while. But its not a hard and fast thing. I don't have any issues with waiting another month. There's no loss in doing so. Chances are, they will play somewhere in the .500 range, and will probably stay somewhere between 6 and 10 games out, but I'm sure Kenny Williams (as do many others including myself) want to give this team a good sample size in order to have more certainty.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:24 PM) Stupid comment. Sox sweep and they are 4.5 games back. That is great for the organization as a whole. Losing is rarely, if ever good, especially when you have a lot of key parts and to me aren't incredibly far away. The offense is one of the worse of all time at this point in the season and it won't stay that way (judging by career norms). This team has some holes, but to act like there aren't very very good baseball players on the squad, we'd be lying. I'm not saying there is an easy fix, but this team isn't near as bad as the record indicates. If the Sox sweep the Twins, they are 6 games back. Anyways, I do agree that the offense will perform better at some point, but when will that be? When they are 10 games out, 11? 9? At some point, and I believe we're already there, it becomes too much too overcome. I do agree that this team has some very good players - but there are also some gaping holes, particularly in the everyday lineup that make me doubt that this team will consistently score enough runs this season to overcome the hole it has dug.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 11, 2010 -> 03:21 PM) For real. I'm saving a lot of money this summer by avoiding going to the games. That's how I am looking at this as well. I can't justify spending good money on a team that isn't (or can't perform) perfomring at OR near an AL Central Champion.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 11, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) Even if the team was much better, the Sox still have this hang up when it comes to beating the Twins. Haven't they lost something like 15 of 18 games to them? I know my numbers are off a bit (they are off the top of my head), but they are close.