spiderman

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2007 -> 02:56 PM) While your point is taken...I think it would be foolish to insist on pitching as a return for JG given the state of our minor leagues and the fact that we're mildly stronger on pitching talent than on position players. Naturally, if someone offers you a Kershaw you laugh all the way to the bank, but barring that, I would put a higher priority on finding someone who could play the field somewhere. I think their first objective would be to acquire a young SS, but I don't think they'd pass on more pitching.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 17, 2007 -> 02:55 PM) Agreed, although Garland is certainly a player they'll look to dump for multiple young Grade B arms. Definitely (and maybe probable) that Garland will be dealt for 2 major league ready (or about ready) prospects.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2007 -> 03:04 PM) The way I look at it...right now we have so many different places where we need to spend money that at some point, we have to gamble a bit on what we have and save money in a place or two. Based on what Floyd, Broadway, Danks, Gio, etc. have done recently, which for many of them is simply "Not suck for an entire year", I think SP is a good place to try to do that. I can give the same logic for why I think we need Owens and Richar in the lineup next year; we just don't have the money to find someone better at every slot, and our money would be better spent finding another OF/#2 hitter, an upgraded SS, and another RHP out of the bullpen. So, you're in favor of trading Garland, and then rounding out the rotation with Contreras and 2 of the youngsters ? I understand the thinkingl, especially if Kenny doesn't believe he can resign him, but I just have so much concern about having 3 guys I don't really trust. I do agree with you on the need to save money in certain spots. That's why I would lean to giving Owens a shot in LF next season should they be able to add a CF, and making Richar the primary starter at 2B along with a young starter in the #5 hole. I really only see one expensive addition, and that looks to be CF.

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) Please, please, please ..... stop saying it's early. In 2007, coming out of a horrible ST, Sox fans said, "it's early" When we got off to a horrible start, Sox fans said, "it's early" When we were swept by the Cubs, Sox fans said, "it's early" The off season started for the Sox in May last year. It is not early. I know there is still 3 months until ST, but the Sox deserve no relief of pressure from Sox fans this year. Every day, KW needs to be asked, "What have you done today to win the World Series in 2008?" Anything short of that is a FAILURE!!!! That sounds like a bit of an overreaction. If there were other moves happening every day, and we were sitting back, that's one thing, but Kenny is about as agressive they come, and he'll get going soon. I think the ARod decision will hopefully get the ball rolling going into next week.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 06:10 AM) Good points. I am also starting to think the sox could hang onto Jon. If the sox want to make the playoffs this year--and they certainly seem built for that rather than rebuilding--keeping Jon for 2008 seems smart. Yet if the sox are out of it come the deadline again, trade for youth. Though if the sox want to get some young talent that could help in 2009, or the end of 2008--say a SS like Brent Lillibridge, as well as getting a solid bullpen arm for 2008, trading Jon makes sense as well. If the sox sign Hunter for CF, there are few options for LF/ someone to hit leadoff. The sox could go with a Shannon Stewart/ Owens platoon, with Stewart getting most of the AB's but keeping him rested. The vets have to hit better. And they should. If PK and Dye can't hit for long stretches of the year, the sox aren't going anywhere. The bullpen can't be as bad. But they need to add at least one solid arm for the 7th, 8th inning. Someone like Jason Frasor from Tor. The sox if they keep Jon would only have Crede and guys like Aardsma, Massett, and Sisco for trade. They will likely only get solid arm from that pool of guys. And IIRC, those three are out of options. Only one of those arms should be around come spring. Or bring them all back to fight for one spot. They may actually boost their trade value if they can get some outs in spring. It can't get much lower. The rotation seems set. But Floyd needs a spot as he'll be out of options. Danks needs to step it up. Contreras might be the odd man out, though he's likely to improve after going through his divorce. A few teams will likely offer a decent bullpen arm for him. It might be selling low. But the sox could then hold onto Jon with the possibility of selling high in July. It seems that a consensus is building that keeping Garland as the #3 starter is a major key to getting this team back on track. Adding another relief pitcher would be another smart move, but it would be extremely hard to compete with a shaky (at best) starting rotation.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Are we going to have 9+ new faces for Opening Day 2008? Let's see. I think we'll have a veteran middle IF brought in, a CF, and maybe a LF (though if the CF is a power hitter, I can see the White Sox sticking with Jerry Owens in LF), and maybe another middle reliever. Whether there are more changes will depend on how willing Kenny is on remodeling the club as opposed to just adding to it. We've heard the Konerko rumors as an example. Trading him would change the shape of the offensive club.

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 09:15 PM) So does the weight fall on KW, or does it fall on our poor scouting, player development, where? Do you think that a few years in the dumps would do this organization good? I don't see us being contenders with how tough this division is. So would it make sense from a business standpoint and an organization standpoint to go with the "kids can play" moto and let them develop up in the show. We were the only team excluding NYY or maybe just the only team in general I believe to not have a top 10 pick in the last 15+ years. I forget the stat, but I believe prior to this upcoming draft we hadn't had one. Deal for prospects, scout better both for our draft and also internationally. Then be ready for 2 years from now. 100 mil a year to get a top 10 pick is a joke. I don't think the White Sox are going to dump players in order to improve the farm system - they resigned Dye and Buerhle to compete now.

QUOTE(Beastly @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 09:13 PM) Yes, the White Sox are in a big mess---as of right now. -I hope that they sign someone to help that pen out there, it doesn't need to be a big name or a Japanese player. It just needs to be someone who comes in here and just gets on a tare and kicks ass. I can see Aardsma coming back and being a help in the 'pen this year, I believe last year was a fluke and I hope he proves everyone else wrong in ST. Hopefully MacDougal lives up to what KW wants him to be, but I'm not too high on him like I am Aardsma. Either way, the 'pen needs two more arms. I like what I see out of Wassermann, too. -I am a bit concerned about our rotation if Buehrle and Vazquez fail and we don't add anyone this off-season, but it is only November 8th. I have a feeling the Sox will end up trading Garland at the Winter Meetings. I liked what I saw out of Broadway, I wouldn't mind if he was the No. 5 and the Sox tried to move Danks or Floyd in a package deal with some other player. If there's any way they can dump the Count, they should do it. Otherwise, I anticipate it being a challenge, but by no means a problem that cannot be fixed. -I'm not sure that it was a good move to re-sign Dye, but maybe his fat slow ass can prove me wrong. The major issue I see is that there isn't a good leadoff hitter and I don't think our OF or 2B is set yet. I'm under the assumption that Williams will bring in Graffanino or Iguchi to platoon with Richar, because I don't think Richar is the answer at 2B. I'm still on the Rowand bandwagon, but the Sox should not go and sign Hunter, that would be a bad move IMO. He's too pricey, getting older and he wants a long-term deal. Other than that, I think it'd be fine with Fields playin in LF and if Crede is healthy, then he'll take 3B. -Hey, at least the Sox didn't get Eckstein. Maybe Juan will lay off the quarter-pounders, booze and Mountain Dew and put down the World of Warcraft at some point in the off-season. -I think Konerko and Crede will be back and that we will see Fields in LF after Williams said, "We will know soon of Fields' playing status for '08." Although I didn't like that the Sox may not have pursued other options for the shortstop position and that Williams re-upped with Dye, I can't sit here and say the moves were bad. Dye could be good this year and we gave Uribe $500,000 less. Let's just sit here and see what happens in the coming weeks, because there's got to be some moves happening at the Winter Meetings. - I don't see a bullpen makeover happening here. Already, we are being told by local reporters that Day could be a possible surprise for next season, but even if he isn't on the roster, I think the White Sox are really basing their bullpen improvement hopes on MacDougle and Thorton bouncing back, and we've seen enough over the years to see that a lot of those relievers tend to be up one season, and down the next. If they do trade Garland (or whoever else), I wouldn't be surprised if they add a bullpen arm for next season provided that he has a reasonable contract, but that would be about it. - I'm hoping that the White Sox keep Jon Garland for next season, and find somebody to take Contreras. I don't think he's got much left in the tank. I'm kind of resigned to the fact that we're going to have 2 young starting pitchers in our rotation, and Broadway will hopefully be allowed to compete against Floyd/Denks. - I'm hoping Kenny Williams brings in a veteran to a 1 year deal to compete with Richar, and the guy I like is Mark Loretta. He also played some SS last season though he's more known as a 2B.

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 08:55 PM) There are alot of problems and issues as you said, but to our credit, our team isn't as bad as they played for 2 reasons. 1) Bad years everywhere. Somewhat flukey. (2) we play in a tough division and it takes it toll....That said, we still have a division that is only going to be one year better. So I don't see much improvement. One of my biggest concerns, which I probably should have shared earlier, is that Kenny Williams has too much faith in the team. Last year's 72 wins were bad, but this really started after the all-star break the previous season. I think Kenny really needs to remake this team instead of just adding to it, which definitely helps.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 08:46 PM) Pitching: I agree spiderman i am a bit worried about the rotation.. ESPECIALLY if Garland gets traded. You can't rely on Contreras to get back on track. And how can we expect both Danks and Floyd step it up? Danks showed promise in the first half but tapered off quickly after the All-star break. Floyd struggle hardcore when he got here, but than found a little groove toward the end when the season was already long gone. I don't mind having one of these pitchers in our rotation, but i don't want them both... The bullpen.. YIKES Kenny said this will be his top priority this offseason.. I really hope it is, because it was down right HORRIBLE. Speed: If we get Hunter for CF, that leaves LF as our only open spot (pending a Crede trade) for a speedy leadoff hitter. . With all the other possitions filled up, that also leaves the critical #2 spot open... someone who can bunt and have a solid OBP. I really don't see any #2 hitters in our lineup now that Iguchi has departed. Fields is more like a #6 or 7 hitter and so is Hunter. Uribe will likely be the 8th place hitter and Richar the 9th. . This team is pretty much assembled like the 2000-2004 team of one leadoff hitter and the rest boppers. . But its EARLY: KW can pull of many surprises.. last year he didn't do much and the results showed that. the year before he added Thome, Mackowiack, Cintron, Vazquez and Thorton. That was a good offseason... Despite the fact they collasped in the 2nd half. This offseason he needs to do even more IMHO. Make 1 or 2 trades... get a few speedy guys in the lineup.. trade a bopper or 2 (Crede and Konerko?) hopefully trade Contreras for a team desperate for another starter.. possibly give us a decent reliever and prospect back.. Sign a Japanese reliever or 2.. Add some bench depth... Yeah this offseason is damn critical for KW... With those rumors of Hunter possibly getting 6 years, I don't think the White Sox would be willing to do that (smartly) too so I really think that CF is more likely to be filled through a trade with somebody like Coco Crisp. I know Rowand is probably next on the free agent list in CF, but is really worth $10-11 million a year over 4 or 5 seasons ? As far as pitching, I just don't think this team will be near the top of the division if they have to depend on both Gavin Floyd and John Denks as the #4 and #5 starters. If the White Sox are unable to sign Hunter, might they be willing to look at resigning Garland instead with this money ? Just an idea, but it's hard to compete with a mediocre starting rotation.

It's a shame that we have those guys doing games. They suck, and the White Sox are staying with a bad product.

Texas has to be extremely happy about this. First, they get out of the deal, and then they see the Yanks eventually resign him! Now, they can overpay for somebody else! At least this guy would be on their team!

Using Lowell would be a loss, but they'd just go out and make a trade for another all star caliber player.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Nov 15, 2007 -> 06:46 PM) Now that the figures have apparently been agreed upon, and assuming he hasn't actually inked the contract yet-- I wonder if another team swooped in and offered to match that offer would A-Rod accept? Supposedly he really wanted out of NY but nobody wanted to deal with Borass and his tactics (asking for 30-40M). Now that the terms are set, what's to stop another GM from telling A-Rod he'll match that offer and get him out of NY? Yanks have money to burn, I would have been shocked to see any team willing to give 10 years at $27 million plus. They severely overpaid for him, but it doesn't really have any effect on NY because they have nothing but money to throw around.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 01:10 PM) His use of the numbers is bad. But he is pretty much dead on about a political solution being needed. I don't agree with the type of solution he is stating exactly, though. No doubt a political solution is needed, but can one exist with such a high level of violence ? That's why the recent progress is good news. If it lasts, it allows for a chance at a political solution being worked out.

QUOTE(ChiSox_Sonix @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) This really is not a Democrat v.s Republican thing...it's really more of a Bill Richardson v.s not being an idiot thing I think it's clearly a Democratic stance that Richardson seems to be the most definite about. All of the leading Democrats are talking of withdraw, though not as immediate as Richardson, but not far behind - leaving limited number of troops behind for special missions.

USAToday: Roadside bombs in Iraq fall sharply The number of roadside bombs found in Iraq declined dramatically in August and September from earlier this year, and U.S. officials say the discoveries of thousands of ammunition caches might explain the drop. Improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, are responsible for at least 60% of U.S. casualties in Iraq. The Pentagon has repeatedly refused to release figures on the number of IED attacks in Iraq or the number of casualties that have resulted. USA TODAY obtained the month-by-month tally, which represents the total numbers of IEDs — exploded or unexploded — found in Iraq, including those targeting U.S. and coalition troops, Iraqi security forces and civilians. Since the start of the year through September, coalition forces found 25,208 IEDs, according to the figures, which were confirmed by the Pentagon. In those nine months, IEDs killed 510 coalition troops. The numbers of IEDs found and the deaths they caused have declined steadily since June. In September, coalition forces found 2,022 IEDs. That's down 38% from March, this year's peak. On Monday, the U.S. command in Baghdad also said rocket and mortar attacks have dropped to their lowest levels in 21 months. The tallies were issued a day after Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said suicide attacks and other bombings in Baghdad also declined. U.S. officials say the figures show that efforts to crack the Iraqi insurgency are succeeding. The decline in IEDs is due to "a combination of the right technology and equipment, world-class training, and successfully attacking the networks that build and employ the IEDs," says retired Army general Montgomery Meigs, director of the military's Joint IED Defeat Organization. In Iraq last week, U.S. commanders cited a spike in the number of ammunition caches that U.S. and coalition forces have found. "The clearing of these caches has helped contribute to the downward trends we are seeing in IED explosions and indirect fire," Rear Adm. Gregory Smith said. In the first 10 months of 2007, coalition and Iraqi forces have found 5,364 caches of explosives and ammunition — twice the volume found in all of 2006. "These caches consist of a range of munitions, homemade explosives and other items necessary to build improvised explosive devices," Smith said. Iraqi security forces found and cleared many of the caches, Smith said. He credited the increasing effectiveness of those forces and the recent surge in U.S. troops as key factors. "Starting in April, when the majority of the surge forces had arrived in Iraq, the number of caches found spiked considerably. And in the ensuing months, we've seen a steady increase," Smith said. Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, commander of U.S. forces south of the capital, said Sunday he believed the decrease in rocket and mortar attacks would hold because of what he called a "groundswell" of support from regular Iraqis. "If we didn't have so many people coming forward to help, I'd think this is a flash in the pan. But that's just not the case," Lynch said.

Watching FOX News Sunday, and wanted to share this exchange between Chris Wallace of FOX and Democratic Presidential Candidate Bill Richardson, who believes all troops should be pulled out of Iraq within a year. Richardson keeps referring to General Sanchez as a commander in Iraq when in fact he hasn't been the commander in 2 or 3 years, and he is completely ignoring any progress of the surge. ** WALLACE: Aren't you, at this point, about to pull the troops out at exactly the moment when the troop surge shows signs of working? I'd like you to take a look at these numbers, sir. Thirty-nine U.S. soldiers died in October. That's the lowest monthly number since sectarian violence spiked in March of 2006. According to the U.S. military, Iraqi civilian deaths fell from 2,800 in Ja nuary to 800 last month. And, Governor, look at these numbers from Baghdad — murders down 80 percent from the peak. Attacks using roadside bombs down 70 percent. Governor, aren't you giving up — aren't you going to turn back hard-won territory to our enemies just at the moment when the surge is beginning to work and violence is decreasing in Iraq? RICHARDSON: First of all, I don't believe the surge is working. You don't mention progress... WALLACE: Sir, how do you explain those numbers? I mean, October was 39... RICHARDSON: You don't measure progress by body counts. Here's how I would measure progress. Number one, there is no progress in political compromise. The Maliki government has failed to make that happen in dividing up all revenues. Three out of 18 benchmarks by the General Accounting Office have shown that it is a failure — three out of the — benchmarks, especially the ones that matter, like are we training Iraqi forces at a successful rate. Is there movement toward a political compromise where the three groups get together? General Sanchez, our Iraqi commander, comes out and says basically the surge is a disaster... WALLACE: ... I mean, you've mentioned Sanchez twice. He was our Iraqi commander a good long time ago, and he was let go as part of the Abu Ghraib scandal. So I mean, he's not on top of the situation right now either. I mean, you're ignoring... RICHARDSON: No, but, Chris, he's a military leader. WALLACE: Some years ago he was on the ground. It seems to me yo u're... ignoring the fact, Governor, that in Anbar province, the Sunnis have turned away from Al Qaeda and now favor us. Places like Ramadi and Fallujah — people can walk down the street. There are neighborhoods in Baghdad that used to be death zones that are now safe for people to walk. And aren't you ignoring just the facts on the ground in Iraq? RICHARDSON: No, this is a quagmire. There is no military solution. There's only a political solution. And that window, in my judgment, is vanishing. When 3,800 American troops are dead, 60,000 American troops are wounded — mental health — 100,000 Iraqis have perished, you can't say that this successfully has been a military operation.There is a political solution, and I believe that solution can happen if we use the leverage of our withdrawal responsibly over a 12- month period, but push the United States diplomacy, leadership, a Dayton-type agre ement in which the three groups in Iraq potentially have some kind of a political compromise where they share power, an all-Muslim peacekeeping force with European forces, too, headed by the United Nations to patrol that potential agreement. And then thirdly, other countries, Chris, like donor countries in Europe and Japan, to pay for a war that has cost the American people $750 billion. We need to shift our forces. I would keep some in Kuwait. I would refurbish our presence in Afghanistan. We need two more divisions in the Army. We need one division in the Marines. Our military has been bled dry by this war. It is time to shift.

Sox's hunt for OF is on Chicago Tribune Link Williams also targets bullpen, leadoff man in off-season dealing A White Sox fan smirked last week that he will save about $2,000 by electing not to renew his 2008 partial-season-ticket package after the team chose to re-sign shortstop Juan Uribe. The Sox, however, are expected to pour their financial resources into signing All-Star center fielder Torii Hunter. The effort begins Tuesday when teams are allowed to make financial offers to free agents other than their own. The latest recruiting tactic occurred Sunday night when general manager Ken Williams explained his plan for reviving the Sox to Hunter at an undisclosed location. But now the Sox and other teams interested in Hunter must back up their pursuit with an offer that should reach at least five years and perhaps more than $15 million annually. Such a contract would be the largest in Sox history. Hunter, 32, is a seven-time Gold Glove Award winner who drove in 107 runs for Minnesota last season. In addition to landing a center fielder of Hunter's caliber, Williams must retool a horrendous bullpen and possibly acquire an accomplished leadoff hitter. Williams has repeatedly said he has the financial resources to sign a top-notch player. But he may need to trade dependable starter Jon Garland and third baseman Joe Crede, who is coming off back surgery and eligible for free agency after 2008, to complete his off-season mission. One team source believed the Sox would be better off settling for free-agent fan favorite Aaron Rowand as their center fielder so they'd have more money to address other areas. This much is certain: Hunter has turned down a three-year, $45 million offer from the Twins and has expressed a belief that the next contract he signs will probably be his last. He's also aware that Williams can expand a payroll that already includes seven players earning $9.5 million or more. At last season's All-Star Game, Hunter said he had wondered what it would be like to play in a large market such as Chicago instead of Minnesota, which has won consistently without a large media or marketing spotlight. But it could be a mixed blessing: Two of Hunter's friends and former Twins teammates, Jacque Jones and LaTroy Hawkins, hardly flourished playing in Chicago with the Cubs. Getting away from the Metrodome's artificial turf will help Hunter's longevity. He has hit at least 26 home runs and driven in at least 92 runs in five of the last seven seasons. Hunter is a year older than Rowand, who is coming off a career-best year but knows the demands of playing under the microscope in Chicago and Philadelphia. Rowand's value has been enhanced greatly by his 2007 season: .307, 27 homers, 89 RBIs. Those numbers could guarantee him at least four years and $11 million annually, exceeding previous deals signed by outfielders Gary Matthews Jr., Juan Pierre and Eric Byrnes. Signing Hunter or Rowand, however, would still leave the Sox without a leadoff hitter unless they stick with Jerry Owens, who batted .340 in the final month of the season and .284 with 29 stolen bases after his second call-up from Triple-A Charlotte on July 3. Williams plans to explore the free-agent market for relievers to strengthen a bullpen that ranked 12th in the American League with a 5.47 ERA. The Sox tried to acquire Scott Linebrink and Octavio Dotel, both free agents, during different junctures in 2006. Both are free agents, as is Hawkins, who has the same agent as Hunter.

QUOTE(G&T @ Nov 11, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) I agree with this. But after reading the article it feels like other teams are not as hot to make a deal as the Marlins expected, and the Sox might now have their foot in the door rather than just being an after thought. Kenny Williams is probably just calling and calling looking for a trade partner.

It sounds like they are only in the mix if other teams back out or aren't interested.

I'd like Mark Loretta - he can play SS if needed, but he'd provide competition for Richar, and has hit for a nice average.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Nov 11, 2007 -> 12:14 PM) Looks like this is heating up: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7432422 Left Field? Looks to me like just more speculation. Basically, the White Sox could get in on this if 5 other teams aren't interested.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) Am I the only person here who owns a calendar? Of course, it's early and we have the entire off-season to make moves that will hopefully improve the team. My concern is that we have a lot of problems, and I'm sure that we're a few moves away from getting back into contention.

Are the White Sox a mess ? When I look at this team, I see way too many issues/concerns and holes for this to be fixed all in one off-season, and I fear that this team is just mediocre with not much upside. - The bullpen isn't going to get the overhaul that many hope it will. I think, at most, we'll see 2 new faces from outside the organization, but most of the improvement is going to have to come from MacDougle and Thorton. - The starting rotation has Buerhle and Vazquez. After that, I have my doubts that Garland will be back, and Contreras hasn't had a lot of success, and who knows how old he is. Denks and Floyd could both be our rotation next season, and that's not going to be good for our team ERA. Can we win with at least 2 questionable starters, and 3 if you include Contreras ? - The offense is all or nothing, and is dependent on hitting HR's. They don't have a leadoff hitter, and they have several guys coming off bad years. They don't walk a lot, but they do strike out a lot. - Kenny Williams seems all too willing to throw his free agent money at T.Hunter. He's a very good player, but he's 32 years old. I'd love Hunter, but we are overpaying both in years and contract. - Juan Uribe is back. - Who's at 3B ? It's probably going to be Fields though Crede could be here for one more year. If it is Fields at 3B, does that mean Jerry Owens will be our leadoff hitter in LF ? If true, can Owens justify the faith ? - Is Paul Konerko going to be back ? He's got the big contract, but hasn't been as good either. He's been mentioned quite a few times in rumors to the Angels. - What about 2B ? Is Danny Richar the man ? I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I also don't see a lot of hope here, more of a lot of pieces to puzzle, but nothing really fits, and it's all over the place. Where am I going wrong OR am I right ?