spiderman

As much as I would be ok with a rotation set up for the next few years with 1) Buerhle 2) Garland 3) Vazquez 4) Denks 5) Floyd/Gonzalez....I doubt it will happen. I think Kenny will be hardpressed to keep the overall team strong if so much of the payroll is taken by 3 players, but, on the other hand, starting pitching is what will keep this team strong, and help it rebound provided that other holes are filled.

This thread should be closed. The 2007 White Sox STINK.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 4, 2007 -> 01:18 PM) I really don't see what there is to dislike about Geoff Jenkins so much? Please enlighten me. I don't have a big problem with Jenkins - he does play good defense, and he'll hit about 25 HR, and 90 RBI, but he will K a lot...My point about Jenkins is more about the White Sox philosophy towards free agents - I don't see them signing the Grade A free agents, but instead they will look for solid players who maybe they can get at a reasonable price. I think Jenkins has a chance to fall into that category given all of the attention that will be paid to the CF's this off-season.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 01:09 PM) Oh, I would take it far. Not as far as the Marlins, but pretty far. I dreamt something up like this a couple days ago (I'll work out the trades on another day). CF, Jacoby Ellsbury SS, Yunel Escobar DH, Jim Thome 1B, Paul Konerko RF, Geoff Jenkins C, Jarrod Saltalamacchia 3B, Josh Fields LF, Ryan Sweeney 2B, Danny Richar As much I really don't want Geoff Jenkins, he'd be the kind of signing I'd expect from the White Sox - someone not that expensive, but who is a veteran, and maybe a change of scenary helps.

Great!!! Now we're, what, 8 games under .500 ???? Whoopeee!!!!

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 06:46 PM) Yes but it could be very misleading. Take all the hate with Contreras. Take away his first and last start. Say they are not relevant and his ERA is 3.97. Not bad. As bad as Contreras has been this season, his ERA is almost identical to Vazquez's last season, and a lot of people say Vazquez is paid perfectly. He makes more than Contreras, so Jose must be a bargain even when he's bad. I know what you are saying, but I think a similar argument is the one where, "besides the grand slam that was hit against him, he pitched a pretty good game"

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 12:23 PM) After winning the WS, I think that Kenny envisioned a 2-3 year window to repeat with the same core players. I think that he's anticipating major turnover between next year and '09, with Garland being part of that turnover. I think Kenny will look to make moves that keep the team competitive, but I don't see how a patchwork team can beat the Indians or Tigers.Too many holes, and although I think keeping Garland is the way too go - starting pitching is the key to any good team - I think the White Sox will look to get 2 or 3 major league ready players this off-season for Garland, especially if they think they won't be able to sign him.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 12:07 PM) Than Mark? I'm not sure I'd say that. They're not going to extend both of these guys - that'd be at least $110 million in guaranteed money. I still think they will resign Buerhle, but it needs to get done soon else Kenny will have to look at those trades out there. As for Garland, I hope they look to resign him. Yes, that will be expensive, but we do have Denks and Gavin Floyd filling out the rotation next season because they need to move Contreras' contract. I'd like to see next season be: 1) Buerhle 2) Garland 3) Vazquez 4) Denks 5) Floyd/Gonzalez Is it realistic to expect the White Sox to sign both Garland and Buerhle ? Probably not, especially with Kenny so in love with all his acquired pitchers, in particular, Floyd and Gonzalez, who both could be ready for next season's rotation, and moving Garland during the off-season could bring a nice player or two to fill in holes in the OF/SS/2B and bullpen.

Kenny may not want to say so, but this is a rebuilding project. We may need a whole new OF...I'm assuming it will be 2 open spots as they will probably let Sweeney battle with Owens/Anderson for one spot. We need a new SS/2B - we traded for the Arizona IF so he may grab one spot, and we still have Cintron, but I'm not sure he's anything but a backup. I expect Contreras to be traded, and hopefully Buerhle signed, but Floyd can grab the 5th spot in the rotation. Kenny needs to add at least dependable setup man, and probably two more. So, I'm seeing Kenny looking to go outside the organiazation for at least one new reliever, one middle infielder, and 2 OF spots. QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 12:01 PM) The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed? You can't handle the truth.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 11:56 AM) It has nothing to do with lesser players. It has to do with Jon Garland. Garland isn't a lesser player - the guy has become one of the better pitchers around. If Pablo Ozuna wants a no trade clause, say no. If Garland wants one, and he's one your pitchers you hope to build another championship team around, I think you need to think about giving him one. Again, for your important players, this shouldn't be a deal breaker. For your role players, you just say no.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 11:28 AM) Still waiting for some names. You just can't make a disparaging claim and not back it up. I think it's fair to say that some of the White Sox better players have left town not on the greatest of terms - Fisk, Mags, Frank, etc. For whatever reason, when the White Sox are in contract talks, they have tended to become public, and and drawn out. This went on with the Bulls as well with the yearly Phil Jackson deals.

QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 01:12 AM) I just watched the Kenny comments on CSN. While he makes some valid points (players in the future asking for full NTC), a pitcher like Buehrle doesn't come along every day and he doesn't come with that discount. If Kenny doesn't think it's a tremendous discount at 4/56, he should just trade him and watch him get 100 million over 7. All I know is I'd hate to be Kenny at Soxfest next year if Buehrle isn't under contract. That's not a valid point. If the White Sox can't say no to lesser players, then they need to learn how to negoatiate better.

First off, although it may be White Sox policy not to go beyond 3 years, that doesn't mean that it's reasonable. I happen to agree that it is a smart policy, but if every other team in the league goes 4 years+, why should Mark Buerhle take this as the White Sox bending over backwards to sign him - shouldn't that be seen only as the White Sox being realistic ? Secondly, I'm sick of this story. Let's get this done Kenny.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 12:54 PM) The White Sox informed the Chicago Sun-Times today that Jose Contreras's no-trade clause actually ran out in November of 2006. So much for Contreras waiving anything. Joe Cowley says the Mets, Braves, and Dodgers are all interested. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kenny Williams deal Buehrle and anothe starter. He could deal Buehrle for a top position player prospect, and then swap Contreras or Javier Vazquez for a younger starter. It will be tough for KW to sit back and close up shop on starters after making a Buehrle trade. A Buehrle trade may only increase the desperation of the remaining clubs. Williams might still have the best available starter in his stable, if the competition is Matt Morris and Jason Jennings. If Buerhle is traded, all bets are off. He could look to dump a ton of salary, and start the off-season with as much flexibility in the payroll as possible.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 09:11 AM) I think the deal presented is pretty fair and at he end of the day one Buerhle should accept. The Sox gave Contrearas the NTC in the renegotiated deal after the Yanks deal expired. I'm not sure about fair...unless you are thinking only from the White Sox perspective here. On the open market, Buerhle could add anohter year or two to this deal, and be up past $75 million. The 4 years, 56 million is a great deal for the White Sox. I don't think talks are dead just yet, but it would be a shame for this to end on a no trade clause.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 08:36 AM) Because it is much eaiser to build a team back up if you have good stable young pitching. Buehrle, Garland, and Danks all 28 and younger would help this team re-build on the fly in a hurry. Exactly right. If you have starting pitching, and I think most would feel good about #1 Buerhle #2 Garland #3 Vazquez #4 Denks #5 Floyd/TBD for next season, they would have a shot provided Kenny was able to find ways to improve the offense/bullpen. Now, with Buerhle (and Garland not long after) likely to leave, this team is just hoping that every prospect we have comes up and performs well. I pray that Contreras is moved before the deadline to the Mets. Beyond that, leave the starting staff alone, and find other ways to get the rest of the team better without destroying the rotation, the one strength this team does have.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) This is how I keep busy on my off days. Who is this ?

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QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 07:57 PM) Very interesting article, especially with Ozzie saying something would have to happen this week. Maybe I'm naive, but we'll know which direction Sox are going in tomorrow. Maybe the White Sox have let it be known that tomorrow (who knows why) is a deadline of sorts for getting an extention done, and if not, the White Sox will look to make a move for next season.

QUOTE(whtsox13 @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) A firend of mine said he heard it was 5 yrs/$85 mil. I highly doubt that those numbers are accurate.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 10:21 AM) I really don't like the way Mulligan and Hanley are talking right now. They continue to repeat themselves saying it's not quite a done deal and that "sources" (ick) are telling them it's close/done. I could see KW dealing him away in the next few hours and totally killing this buzz the Score has sent through the fanbase. I don't believe a source exists. I think they want their listeners to believe they are on top of the story, but who is breaking this ? Jesse Rogers ? Please.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 10:03 AM) You know what I hate during these situations: when numerous media outlets jump on one article in the paper, and then they all report it in different ways. However, I'd assume that the Score has their own people getting information, and that would be good news. Even though I said before that I'm doubtful things are as close as Cowley reported, I'd be thrilled beyond belief if they signed him. As someone just mentioned, this would be a great sign that we're still serious about fielding a competitive team for the next few years. I think the Score is just jumping on this story without any new information....but they can report anything and who can really doubt it ? It's an easy win for them....they can claim that they have the story too.

This is the scenario I was hoping for. Starting pitching has been the strength of the White Sox so why not leave that as a strength, at least up top with 1) Buerhle 2) Garland 3) Vazquez and then Denks... Let's hopefully move Contreras, Dye, and Iguchi, add some prospects who are MLB or near it, and then patch some remaining holes in free agency.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:12 PM) Speculation or are you claiming inside info? He's speculating. He has no inside info.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:00 PM) He's a 32 year old mid-700 OPS outfielder with minimal speed and defensive ability who has a problem with authoritative personalities and is due $5M next season. On second thought, his .623 OPS this season would fit in perfectly with the rest of the Sox' lineup. Point taken. Jacque Jones sucks. If Kenny Williams is indeed interested, he may want to take a leave of absense.