spiderman

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) But you have to realize that salaries across the board on our team escalated this year. Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, Garland, Mark, Dye, AJ, etc.....most of the contracts were slightly backloaded, so we probably picked up about 10 million that way. I understand that, but I'd be interested in knowing how much our overall payroll increased from arbritration, contract increases, etc, and whether that would account for the room in increasing the payroll. I was hoping with the 2006 revenue they would be able to do a bit more than just account for the natural increases, and then complain about the free agency market being too expensive. Seeing this in the DailyHerald does concern me: Money talks: The White Sox’ payroll was nearly $100 million last season, and they figure to spend the same amount in 2007, even with Freddy Garcia’s $10 million salary off the books.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:54 PM) Thats not what was said. They did discuss extensions, however the years and amounts made the sox feel uncomfortable, so they traded him. Of course Garland was rumored. He is the most attractive. People are not willing to give up their sure fire number one guys in the minors for a one year rental. 1.) Jon Garland - young, signed for multiple years at a good rate, sinkerballer 2.) Vazquez - talented, has a year and an arbitration year left. 3.) the rest **************************** ''It was our intention to talk about extensions with every one of [the current starting pitchers] because they're all young, they're all durable and I don't think -- at one point in time -- outside of the business question,'' Williams said. ''What's going on now in the market, it's not realistic for us to go that route. We've got to make an adjustment.'' ''What we would be talking about, honestly, are numbers and years I'm not comfortable with,'' Williams said of negotiating with his pitchers. ************************** It doesn't sound like extensions were ever discussed based upon the above quotes - they just didn't like the way the market was headed, and decided to retool the rotation. Of course, I understand teams are going to target Garland first because of his contract status, but, from the White Sox perspective, they can still get a lot for Buerhle, should they choose to move him.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) If Buerhle wants to sign a deal similiar to Garland or the Count he will stay. If he want a 5 year somewhere between Zito and Meche then he will be gone. It doesn't sound like the White Sox are even interested in offering extensions though from what Williams says. I think they have already made their mind up that they need to rebuild the starting pitching. That's why I was surprised to hear Garland could be traded today with 2 seasons to go at a very reasonable salary- if you're going to move Buerhle, at least you can argue that he'll cost too much, but they can still have a pretty good top 4 for next season with Contreras, Garland, Vasquez, McCarthy, and then let 2 of their top prospects (Floyd and the prospect acquired for Buerhle) fight it out for the #5 spot. Personally, I would keep Buerhle for next season, try to win it next season, and if doesn't work out, then that's that. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) How much of a raise will Dye get from his 6 million dollar deal next year. How much of a raise would of Garcia got. How much of a raise would Buerhle get. Add in some raises in arbitration battles. Add in eventually Joe Crede. How much f***ing money do you think we have to wrap up in a few players. It doesn't appear that you read the newspaper very often, but Kenny Williams has said they won't be offering any extensions to their starting pitching. Did you miss that or are you thinking they are going to sign them still ? That would seem to eliminate Garcia and Buerhle from your list. If Crede continues to play well next season, do you expect the White Sox to sign him, given his agent ? So, we're now down to Dye. I hope they resign him, but this is hardly guaranteed. QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) The payroll is naturally rising as a result of escalating salaries, arbitration eligible players, etc. Additionally, let's see how the rest of this offseason plays out before we start discussing where our payroll is at. Fair Enough.

Whatever happened to raising the payroll after last season ? Didn't we finish the season at about $100 million ? With the attendance, TV Ratings, and new collective bargaining agreement that has seemed to give other teams $$$$ to burn, why can't we raise our payroll ?

I'd say his comments about Buerhle don't bode well for his future here. Is Buerhle next to go ?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) Governor Bill Richardson: I'm Running. - Fox news. Update: The Richardson camp says that Fox made this up. I like Richardson, but I hope that FOX is making this up because he'd be wasting his time.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:23 AM) If he thought he could sign Buehrle for that kind of money, I'm sure he wouldn't say "no extensions". Think about it. These agents are smelling blood right now. I think Kenny Williams is having a change in philosphy due to the free agent market. If he was able to sign Buerhle to a $13 million dollar contract, Garland, one year later, would be worth at least as much, and maybe $15 million - that's $28 million for 2 pitchers as opposed to having 3 pitchers signed for that amount previously. With the escalating costs for starting pitching, Williams is opting to go with younger pitchers who are under the team's control for up to 6 seasons. Finally, if Buerhle were to become a free agent, the White Sox probably wouldn't get into a bidding war for a pitcher given their restrictions on years as opposed to other teams who give out 5 year deals for more money than the Sox would offer - so, yes, the agents would smell blood if Buerhle was a free agent, but by that point, the Sox would move on.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:31 AM) On the open market, Buehrle will come in at just under Zito numbers. 3 years and $36M won't even come close. That's the market today ... which is why KW did what he did and why he may trade Mark. On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct. However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done. Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions.

I'm disgusted with what I'm hearing from the White Sox - yes, they are getting back two players from the Phillies who supposedly have high upside, and the Sox believe that they can be top of the line starters, but they don't seem to be interested at all in paying their pitchers, which Williams has been quoted as saying over and over is the reason they won the WS in '05. I want to win again next season, and if they trade Buerhle, which looks like a real possibility, they won't win with Gavin Floyd/Brandon McCarthy in the rotation in a league where you may have to win 95 games. With all the revenue pouring in, they can't get Burehle locked up on a 3 year, 36 million dollar deal that would put him just below a Chris Carpetner in terms of $/year ???? I'll say this for the Cubs - I'm not sure they're spending the money they have smartly, but at least they realize that you to spend money to get free agents/improve the club/keep it together (A.Ramirez). It seems though that we have decided to take a step back in order to get more young pitching - not a bad strategy if you could guarantee the young pitching would develop, but, as we know, can't do that.

"I think Gavin's going to be a little bit of a late bloomer," Phillies assistant GM Mike Arbuckle said.

"Gavin gives us one of the best arms in baseball," said White Sox general manager Ken Williams. "We expect him to compete with Brandon McCarthy for the fifth spot in the starting rotation."

My thoughts: - I'm rather shocked that the White Sox didn't get Aaron Rowand back in this deal, not because I necessarily wanted him back (I don't think it would hurt given our CF issues), but because he is expendable in Philly, and I believe due to make about $3 or $4 million next season...I'm guessing, that if his name did come up, the White Sox didn't want the $$$. - We do save about $10 million in salaries for this upcoming season. Do we use it on a free agent (unlikely, i believe), or use it to lock up Dye/Buerhle long-term ? - Gavin Floyd ? he got kicked around in 11 starts for the Phillies, and supposedly is wild. Couldn't Kenny have done better for Garcia ? Does he even make the roster or is going back to the minors ? - I suppose with McCarthy now in the rotation, we will be fine in the rotation, and not any worse than last season, but I don't like trading away a proven veteran with playoff/late season experience like Garcia for prospects. I guess in summary, I am surprised Kenny didn't get more out of this deal.

The Chicago Tribune's Dave Van Dyck reports the Chicago White Sox will not make a bid for free-agent OF Barry Bonds (Giants), whose San Francisco career appears to be over after 13 years. "I grew up with Barry in the Bay Area," White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said. "I played against him in high school and we maintain a friendly relationship. He is very nice to my kids. And I would just as soon keep it that way."

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 12:58 PM) You could look at it this way - Maybe this deal really is flying under the radar because it is not being picked up by everyone. There are a number of deals that get done and the big boys (ESPN, FOX, SI...) do not pick up on them until they are announced. I would think a deal of this size would be reported asap. Then again it could just be garbage. I am not a big fan of Bruce, but he has been known to be right sometimes. Too many moving parts here to keep quiet with Boras involved, lots of $$$$, ARod, and then just the size of the media for this to stay quiet.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 10:31 PM) Vernon Wells is great, but if the White Sox get him, its for 1 season. He'll be in Boston or LA or NY or with the Cubs or Texas in 2008. Again, I don't think this is anything more than a rumor, but, if true, can't we say the same thing about Freddy Garcia ?

Chicago Tribune Story I'm going to guess that this is probably just the Tribune fishing for a story here.....

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 2, 2006 -> 08:06 PM) One of my biggest frustrations are people who are acting like this off-season is already over, or who are judging trades that have not even been made yet. I agree with the first part of your comment - it's definitely still early. Obviously, some of the impatience comes from the Cubs spending a lot of money, and the White Sox sitting back early on. On your 2nd part, we're fans. If there's a rumor that's gaining steam, and is being reported on the Score/LA Times like the Figgins/Santana rumors, I don't have a problem with fans commenting on the rumors.

My biggest frustration has been with the White Sox (aka Kenny Williams) acting surprised that free agency is out of control, and it sounds like the purse strings aren't really open to upgrade the team that route, basically only through trades, and then you hear the Crede may be available because he may cost too much too sign. Wasn't there a new CBA recently signed ? Where are some of these other teams getting the $$$ to make some of these signings ??? This is not a Wiliams bashing - I do trust his judgment to make the right decisions, and I don't want to spend $136 million on Soriano...this is more just frustration that even if we trade a starting pitcher, it's probably going to be for nice young players who may not be able to fully help the team win next season.

QUOTE(dmbjeff @ Dec 1, 2006 -> 11:36 AM) This is the smartest thing said on these boards in a long while. Correct - Dave Roberts had a better '06 season, but why anyone would rather have him on a 3 year deal is beyond me. Pods' has 1 year to prove himself or he's gone. He'll also have Sweeney or possibly Fields breathing down his neck should he struggle early.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Nov 25, 2006 -> 01:04 PM) Plenty of people will tell you we don't need to upgrade Anderson, and I don't believe we have to upgrade Uribe, either. Sorry. I'm not saying we should give up on Anderson - I think we're fine with him playing good defense in CF, but does need to pick up the hitting. If he has another year similar to this past one, we will be looking for a replacement after next season - even now, I wouoldn't be shocked if they have Sweeney in CF to start the season.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Nov 25, 2006 -> 12:51 PM) We needs a upgrade at CF, LF and SS....oh brother Again, though, do you really want to overpay (most likely significantly) for a free agent player ? The off-season is early - I think Kenny is going to make at least one trade involving a starting pitcher, but I wouldn't be surprised if he brings in another veteran OF for some competition...then again, it seems like Ryan Sweeney is their guy.

I think it's become rather obvious that Williams isn't going to make any significant moves in free agency. Can we all agree on that ? I wouldn't normally call signing Dave Roberts a significant move, but he's going to be a starting lead-off hitter, most likely for the Giants, and he'll probably get an overvalued deal for his services. I think at best, Kenny will add a backup catcher, maybe just resigning Alomar at some point, and that could be as much as they do in free agency. Their remaining bullpen spots will be filled either inhouse candidates or through a trade of a starting pitcher. I think it's a safe bet to assume one of the starters will eventually be traded, most likely for prospects on the verge of being ready for the majors. As far as the OF is concerned, Dye's in RF obviously, I think Anderson/Pods (should be be back) will end up just being part of some rotationg system with Sweeney, and possibly Fields, and they're let the play of these guys sort itself out.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) i agree that pods stinks...but personally id rather not trade something from our team/farm for any marginal upgrade that we will get from figgins, a guy who cant hit, throw, or catch, and only barely steals better than podsednik....same goes for dave roberts who will get a ton of money probably in the wake of the pierre deal...now if the sox want to try to get a guy like jose guillen or jay payton cheap...those are much better options...but i dont wanna do something stupid like trade for a podsednik type player when we can resign pods cheap Good Posting - I'm glad to hear someone who doesn't want to overpay for a free agent or in a trade because of overreaction to other moves being made. I trust KW, and will give him the benefit of doubt on anything he does - he's earned that much, but I'm hoping that he holds still and doesn't sign Roberts to an overpriced deal or trade a player like McCarthy away. QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 08:43 PM) Scott Podsednik plays relatively the easiest position on the field, a position where good defense isn't worth that much relative to good offense. While doing this he hits 261/330/353! Not only that, but he plays terrible defense. So he can't hit and he can't field and he's going to cost more than the minimum and he can't stay healthy as well. Why does anyone one want this guy back? Wny does anyone want him back ? Because we won't have to give players for Figgins, who I like, but looks to be pretty similar to Pods. I also don't want to give Roberts a 3 year deal. Pods is coming off a bad year - he has something to prove. Whether he gets the job done is to be determined, but, like I said in an earlier post, he wasn't the only player who sucked in the 2nd half - and I don't want to get rid of them either.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) There are a few options. 1st, you look at Roberts. I dont have much of a problem giving Roberts a big deal as long as its for 3 years. Any longer, and its no deal. A 3 year deal isn't going to wreck the franchise. If that doesnt work... 2nd, you look to Figgins. From everything I have seen, he is on the block. I have a hard time beleiving that Anaheim things a Figgins for Crede swap straight up is fair, so if he can be had for less than that,you see what you can get. You get Figgins on board, Mackowiak becomes expendable(he pretty much is already,and I like Mack) and you can get possibly another bullpen arm or something for Mackowiak. No go on that... Maybe you look at Crisp. I have a feeling with Manny being shopped a little, they might not move Crisp, but im sure he can be had, so you look at Crisp. That doesn't work out... You look at Sweeney/Fields, and find a leadoff hitter in another position. Look at Rollins/Furcal/Young. See what it will take to pry them away. All of those are realistic options,(or somewhat realistic) and I didnt even go down the Manny route. Figgins would be a nice acquistion, but I'm not sure he's an everyday LF - I like him more for Mackowiak's role in that he could rest guys all over the field (2B, 3B, LF specifically). I wouldn't trade Joe Crede to do that though. I'm against Dave Roberts in any form. The guy is no better than what we have. He's coming off a nice year, but I'd rather just sink or swim with Sweeney/Pods, and allocate the $$$$ elsewhere. I agree with you on Crisp - he'd be perfect for what we're looking for in CF, but I tend to think he'll be staying in Boston with Manny possibly on the move. Going back to Figgins, I wonder if a Mackowiak/minor league pitcher isn't enough to get a deal done. Figgins didn't have a great year, I'm not sure if he'll have a position next season in Anaheim or if he'll be moving around, but if they're looking for a guy who's content to be ulitilty player, Mackowiak could fill that role. Obviously, the pitcher would have to be at least a B level prospect.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 02:27 PM) It's easy to have "upside" when you were that bad the previous season... So, who do you want to play LF next season ? You want to get into a bidding war for a free agent OF ?