spiderman

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 09:52 PM) As I drink my coolaid I wonder what kind of Sox fan would ever CLAIM as you put it so incorrectly per verbatim spiderman...."the white sox are done". i don't care what comes after that. do you work for the trib? do you need to really stir up attention to your clever little "the white sox are done" to get a thread started? what kind of cred do you have after you make such a claim? don't ask me jack ask the likes of players in the organization! Actually I would like to see how COOL you are in proclaiming to KW's face that "The White Sox ARE DONE". BTW, exactly what was the motive behind proclaiming "the whitesox are done"? of course we all know that not to be true, but why state something that eats at the heart of a fan? when gooch has a bad game MB doesn't say you are done dude, instead he makes light of the situation and tries to pick em up. Try calling the postgame show and tell em "the whitesox are done" and see how many friends you make! :banghead Let me define DONE for you, from my perspective - they should/will make the playoffs, but they're not going anywhere in the playoffs playing the way they've been in the last 50+ games. What kind of White Sox fan would be critical of the White Sox ? One who watches the games, and sees things as they are instead of through rose-colored glasees. If the White Sox were playing better ball, there would be no need to discuss their failings, would there ? I was not trying to bring up anything more than debate my thoughts - which you apparently cannot. How about this ? Let's actually talk about the my points in the original post I made, and you tell me why I'm wrong, why everything's perfect. I am more than willing to discuss them with you. I think we have one thing in common - we both want them to do well, so let's discuss the points I made, or you counter with your own.

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 08:19 PM) OMG i just read 8 pages of how the mods were going to start modding the site against topics like this...."THE WHITE SOX ARE DONE"??? Hey mods let's assume that ozzie, kw, any sox player in the organization, hawk were to be passed this topic and asked to respond....hmmmmmm WHAT DO YOU EXPECT AS A REPLY FROM THEM? they might say something politically correct, but i don't have to, so i just want to continue to say it for them, THIS TOPIC IS JUST A USELESS ATTEMPT AND A SLAP IN THE FACE OF THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION! even if the points are in good taste the topic itself deserves major questioning! CANT YOU MODS PLEASE just recognize that the topic needs to be changed to something like "THE SOX ARE STRUGGLING" which in itself is a no brainer......I would like to contribute to this site, but I really get so frustrated reading posts here! We have a cool-aid drinker! I, at no point, criticized any player for anything beyond their performance on the field. I don't think you're being very honest if you want a site where can never criticize a player or team. Try reading again - I have said several times that I hope the Sox turn this around, but you obviously aren't interested in anything but pats on the back for this team.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 07:02 PM) Hasn't it been more like 31 days and 20 hours of disappointment? I thought people on here told us not to worry, KW would make some waiver trades to sure up our team? I don't think KW ever guaranteed that he'd make a move, just that he'd explore everything out there and do what he can to improve the team. Still, I hope we can upgrade somehow, someway before the night is over.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 07:13 PM) I'd say he's a number 1, but not an ace. This year, though, he may not even be the number 1 on this staff. I think he's #1 on our staff, but not an ace - so I think we're close to being on the same page. Be careful though - I've been called an idiot already for suggesting this.

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 07:08 PM) Haha, I love how the only possibility is that we played over our heads the first half, and are not underachieving lately (BTW, don't use the whole 2nd half, 2 four game sweeps on the road happened in the second half, by us), Especially when our playoff lineup and one used most of the first half has been out, ummm, once in the last month? You could be right, but this has been going now for 50+ games, and I think this should be concerning to White Sox fans who hope to not only make the playoffs, but actually win a round or two.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 06:58 PM) How many aces are there in baseball? There are 30 number ones, but how many aces? Milkman - do you think Buerhle's an ace OR a strong #2 starter like I believe ? Obviously, every team has a #1 starter, but not every #1 starter is an ace. There are probably at least 20 teams in the league that don't have a legitimate ace pitcher.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 06:01 PM) So Buehrle is not an ace because he struggled against Texas. A lot of pitchers do. They have the best lineup in the AL. Also the defense wasn't exactly great behind Buehrle. IMO, Buerhle is not a shut-down pitcher, thus he's not an Ace, but he's clearly our best starting pitcher. Getting back on point, I realize most don't agree with my Buerhle comment, that's fine, we're not going to agree. We now have a 8 game stretch where hopefully we can get on a roll - the Tigers for 4, Red Sox for 1, and the Royals for 3 - this stretch is important for 2 reasons - 1) just getting this thing turned around, and 2) turning around our losing ways at home as well... I'm hoping for no worse than 5-3, hopefully 6-2 in this stretch.

QUOTE(Nokona @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) Would you like to retract that statement? With this lead in the 2nd game, are you back on the bandwagon? I'm a big White Sox fan, I just don't drink the coolaid.... Making I am worrying too much, and maybe they will be playing their best ball come October, and I hope you all can tell me I'm wrong.....

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) whats your definition of ace, Kerry Wood? Kerry Wood is not an ace.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:58 PM) If Buehrle hasn't been an ace this year...who has?? He has lost H2H 2x to Barry Zito and Johan Santana - yes, i know our team must score runs for him, but at some point, don't you have to be able to knock off other teams' top starters ? Again, this is not to say that he's not a good pitcher - he's a really good pitcher ,just not an ace like you believe. I don't think there are a lot shut-down type pitchers out there - off the top of my head, I'd say Clemens, Halladay (when healthy), Santana, Carpenter, Colon, P.Martinez are definite aces, and there's a few others out there that are arguably as good as Buerhle.

QUOTE(letsgoarow @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:51 PM) buehrle is 14-7 with the 2nd lowest era in the american league.... id say he is a fifth starter at best Nobody is saying that Burehle stinks - did you read that somewhere in this thread ? As I said, he's a good #2 starter, but do you honestly rank him as a true #1 starter ?

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:38 PM) Bad stat. And if we're depending on help from the inside, we'll be waiting a long time. Milkman - why do you consider that a bad stat ?

QUOTE(WhiteSoxLova6 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) it's true. the sox havent played as well as they should be playing right now. but i still have faith that they will make it to the playoffs, and i also have faith, even with how they've been playing recently, that they wont make a first round playoff exit. sooner or later it's gonna get knocked in their heads that they need to stop thinking about what people are saying about them and start having fun like they were before the all star break. once they start doing that again, i'm sure that they'll be playing like they use to. plus every team has their ups and downs, no matter what. I sure hope you're right, and maybe in September they can turn it back on - but at what point do we say they're basically a .500 type team that played an unbelieveable first half ?

QUOTE(marsh @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:22 PM) The offense has been the weak link to this team since game one. Despite having outstanding pitching, both starting and relief, the first half how many games did we have to win by one or two runs? Plus the defense was outstanding. These guys just aren't goning to hit. If we're going to close out this year strong it's going to be on the backs of the pitching and defense. I think when Thomas was in the lineup, his presense took the pressure off of others, and moved everyone down in the lineup...Sure, Thomas wasn't hitting for average, but his home runs were a big contribution. I do think you're exactly right - we're going to have to win games without the benefit of much hitting.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:19 PM) How long before someone calls this guy an asshole and tells him he isn't a fan? Everyone knows my stance on this, no point in saying it again. I take it that you agree that not everything is perfect right now in White Sox land.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:15 PM) All points you listed are valid. Although I'm still worried about our dwindling lead in this division, suggesting they're done will only lead people to immediately discredit your opinion. Some can't accept the possibility this team may be a part of the largest regular season choke in MLB history. Or even that this team's offense is poorly assembled and would be lucky to escape the 1st round of the playoffs. By done, I mean that while they should still win the division (and even that is starting to look a little murky), they just don't have the team that's going to get past the Yankees/Red Sox/Angels/A's in Round 1.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:07 PM) I disagree. Why ?

I thin it's becoming obvios that the White Sox played over their heads in the first half of the season. In the 2nd half, I think a couple points have been solidified, and I'd like to see what White Sox fans here think: 1) I know the price tag is high, and other teams haven't made significant moves, but Kenny Williams needs to do something to upgrade this lineup - even if just gives Ozzie Guillen another bat off the bench, anything! I realize Dmitri Young (or someone similar to him) isn't going to carry a ballclub, but he could be a contributor - right now, playing non-hitters like Geoff Blum, Juan Uribe, Timo Perez, Joe Crede, etc. from basically 6-9, 7-9 in the lineup regularly puts a lot of pressure on the top 6 hitters to do score most/all of the runs, and those guys aren't the type of players capable of doing that. 2) As we stand, the offense is pathetic. They do not have a #3 hitter in the lineup, and most of the hitters are #6 or #7 hitters (Dye, Everett, Rowand, Pierzyinski) in a good lineup. They don't usually put up more than a few runs in a game, putting tremendous pressure on the pitching staff to overcome the lack of run production. 3) Mark Buerhle is not an ace - he is a good pitcher, but no more than #2 on a pitching staff. 4) Jon Garland is pitching how he did last season in the 2nd half. Not consistent at all. 5) Freddy Garcia is the same pitcher he's been over his career - he seems to rise up/down according to his competition. 6) The White Sox need to make a decision about their closer - Hermanson should have the job, but he obviously isn't healthy. The bullpen has pitched well, but down the stretch I think you have to either go with him, or DL him and hope the team makes the playoffs and gets him back healthier OR go with Bobby Jenks down the stretch. 7) With all that, the problem isn't the pitching - yes, it has been uneven, but it can't be expected to win every game 3-2, 4-3. It has not been very often that the White Sox have won comfortably. - I'm not even sure the White Sox make the playoffs anymore. Sure, they still have a 6.5 game lead, and things could be even worse, but this team doesn't have an ace, is getting up and down performances for Garland, and has a closer who's injured, and haven't been depending on as much. The hitting is just not getting the job done, end of story. If they do make the playoffs, I see a first round, playoff exit. -- Feel free to offer your thoughts/commentary vs. my points, and let me add two more points - I don't think I'm overreacting - this has been going now for about 50 games, and, lastly, I'm a big White Sox fan, and watching this fall apart is really disappointing. Looking forward to good discussion.

Who is starting the 1st game for the White Sox ?

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 10:50 AM) Unless you're the Pirates Sweeney probably won't be traded to the White Sox because of the contract, but I don't believe that teams with such low payrolls - like the Royals - would NOT trade with the White Sox if they could work things out. The Pirates have made it a tradition.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 12:29 PM) Isn't Giles a UFA after this season? Maybe they know they won't resign him and just want something in return. That would make sense, and sounds similar to what the Marlins were trying to do with Burnett for awhile, but it would have to depend on who they wanted back on our roster, plus who clears waivers.

Why would the Padres, currently up in the division by 6 games, trade one of their few offensive weapons ? Plus, if they were open to trading him, wouldn't they want major league talent back ?

QUOTE(THEWOOD @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 09:17 AM) i still believe they will get 100 wins....i think after watching last nights game they are going on a streak If we get 100 wins, we win the division by double-digits. Just like the magic number right now is 30, I think win total of 95 should get us the division.

White Sox are now 76-47, Cleveland now has to go 25-10 and Minnesota 28-8 to reach 95 wins, the total wins I see the White Sox getting.

As of August 23rd, we're 75-47. Here's how I see the remaining schedule: September: I think we should be ok in September - we play KC 6 times and Detroit 8 times - if we go 9-5 in those 14, prettty reasonable I think, and 7-8 in 15 vs. Cleveland/Minnesota/Anaheim, that puts us at 16-13 for September, and gives us 91 wins plus whatever we can must up the remaining of the month.... August We have 2 at Minny, 4 at Texas (1 double-header), and 3 at Seattle Having no offense, I think the best we can do is 4-5, 5-4....Let's the worst case scenario in my logic, 4-5. If we go 4-5 the remaining games, that's 95 wins for the season - which should get us into the playoffs. Cleveland has 36 games left - to get to 95 wins, they'd have to go 25-11 Minnesota has 37 games left - to get to 95 wins, they'd have to go 28-9 Of course, the one factor that can change everything is H2H matchups - the Sox play Minny 8 more times, Cleveland 6 - losing a large percentage of those 14 games would change everything, but going .500 in those games, would almost ensure the division title for the White Sox. Edit to include that from this point on, I think the White Sox will finish with a 20-18 record. *** Cleveland Schedule - it is possible to go 25-11 with this schedule - but improbable, they have 18 of 36 vs. respectable teams (Toronto, White Sox, Twins, A's)....: August 24th-25th: @TB August 26th-28th: @Toronto September 12th-14th: vs. Oakland September 27th-29th: vs. TB -6 remaining vs. White Sox -6 remaining vs. Twins -6 remaining vs. Tigers -7 remainnig vs. Royals Minnesota Schedule - nearly impossible to go 28-9 (Texas isn't that good but they can still outscore you at times, plus 17 vs. respectable teams - White Sox, Indians, A's) August 26th-28th: @Texas September 5th-7th: vs. Texas September 19th-21st: @ Oakland - 6 remaining vs. Tigers - 8 remaining vs. White Sox - 7 remaining vs. Royals - 6 remaining vs. Indians