NorthSideSox72

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 11, 2006 -> 03:23 AM) Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. The Feds, of course, have to shoulder their share of the blame. However, it seems like Blanco and Nagin are getting a free pass on this, when the ball started in their court. Look, of course Nagin and Blanco and their EM agents deserve a lot of blame. So do those NO cops who took off (but then, who wouldn't have, for 18k/year). But why are people here not understanding the idea that this was not a local incident? Incident control has to be granted to the authority that has control over the necessary assets - thats a pillar of EM. Since this effected 3 or more states and hundreds of local municipalities, this could not possibly be coordinated by state and locals. That would be horribly inefficient, and the result would have been more deaths. This was a regional disaster, and required national response. Did anyone notice that this went way beyond New Orleans??? You guys can try to deflect blame from the Feds all you want, but this was clearly a federal screw-up above all other levels of government. FEMA needs re-tooling (starting with getting out of DHS and setting up a system where they can self-declare a disaster), Brown needs to be fired (done), and people need to question Bush's bizarre choices for posts in his administration.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 11:21 PM) Part of the US fleet has been changed, most has not. You may indeed have worked in the airline industry before, but you are way off base on this one. All US airlines secured those doors according to FAA standards years ago: http://www.bestsyndication.com/Articles/20...06_airlines.htm Again, you'd need a serious blast to do this, and you'd do a lot of colateral damage. Now, for some terrorist, that may not be a risk they mind. Either they get in, or the plane goes down. But there are smarter ways they could do it, and there are bigger vulnerabilities.

QUOTE(minors @ Feb 11, 2006 -> 01:54 AM) One thing I have yet to see any liberal dispute the fact that they flip-flop on every important issue, until they get united and take a firm stance on something then us conservatives have no worries And yet more talking points. Politics is easy when you see either party as one giant band of clones, isn't it? :rolly

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 04:05 PM) Harry Reid http://reid.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=250689 John Kerry http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/27/kerry.security/ Nancy Pelosi http://democraticmajority.com/content/66/k...-iraq-amendment Teddy Kennedy http://democraticmajority.com/content/66/k...-iraq-amendment I am noticing a theme here... Yup. I said months ago (and so did others) that the Dems should try to turn the security issue around and point it at the GOP, if they want to really rake it in in the '06 midterms. Evan Bayh made a big statement that way too, a few weeks ago. Now the talking heads of the liberal set are doing it. No surprise here.

Or not: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060210/pl_nm/...ropping_poll_dc Public opinion shouldn't be irrelevant on this issue anyway. This is an issue of law.

Anyone look at the page on whitesox.com lately showing pricing for season tickets? Check out how many plans are already sold out (not just for playoffs, but sold out period): http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...lans/prices.jsp Pretty cool. It's still only February, and people are still buying. I'll be even more curious to see how sold-out various games are after they go on sale next week (if the Sox ever say anything about it, which they may not).

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 03:12 PM) The state and locals have to be willing to give up command and control. Not the case. The federal government has the ability to control any disaster response (if it chooses), for the same reasons they can control any civil disturbance. When the news was breaking about the nasty response, there were some people stating that Feds couldn't go in there, but they can, if its declared a catastrophic disaster, triggering the federal response control plan: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/01/katrina.w...?section=cnn_us But no one made that declaration, even after the fact. Chertoff could have, or anyone above him. Brown could have done it in the old layout, and in the current DHS world, could have asked Chertoff to do so. And before that point, federal aid and assets can always be mobilized and respond - they just can't command state assets without the declaration. So, its still a federal screw up. They could have (and should have with the obvious signs) declared a disaster, and they could have responded independently even without that.

QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) There's a town near me that had too much flouride in their water for years. All the people from there have black nasty teeth. From too much flouride? Are you sure it wasn't some other chemical? That seems like a strange reaction. The only info I could find on too much flouride talked about skeletal problems with too much bone mass (and too brittle). Everything else I found is weird conspiracy stuff about Nazis and Communists.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 02:25 PM) Don't tell me what's realistic. I worked for an airline and spent countless hours around jet airliners of all types. A 'shoe bomb' depending on how it is (for lack of a better word) calibrated would work just about right. Those doors are not made to withstand much at all, they're not reinforced. I don't care what deadbolts or locks have been put in place - those doors are extremely thin and can be taken out rather easily without causing much other damage. No offense, but I don't see how you can think a blast strong enough to blow out that door, even if its made of thin plastic, isn't going to cause damage to what is behind it. Only in Hollywood does a blast destroy its target and not disperse energy outside the surface of contact.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 02:24 PM) Our tap water is teeming with chlorine. My doctor recommended to me that I drink bottled or filtered water for that reason. Hm. I had a dentist tell me once that people should drink more tap water because they add flouride to it (bottled water often doesn't have that). Some dentists apparently think the shift to bottled water is increasing incidence of cavities. I honestly have no idea if thats true or not (about cavities).

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 02:03 PM) http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/10/0...9.9nrba2js.html It really is kind of sad that we have the safest tap water on earth, and yet we drink more bottled water than anyone else. Its just really wasteful on so many levels.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 12:11 PM) I'm not saying they should have had the entire Louisiana and Mississippi and Texas and Alabama National Guards sitting and waiting in full gear...but I am saying they should have one first response team ready. One. Call in one battalion. That's what they are there for, isn't it? And if something does happen, then those teams are doing what they can and the rest should be called up within 24 hours...or as many as they can within 24 hours. I know what you are saying, but personally, and I may be alone in this, but if my president/governor/mayor says to me, "Yes, we did spend a lot of money, but I would rather be proactive than reactive." That would make me happy and wouldn't lead to this he said/she said crap that we are dealing with now. I see it as...Spend some money now, save lots of money later. Exactly. Its not as if we were deploying to California because some translator of Nostradamus said it would happen - this was a high probability event, at a known location. No good reason not to be prepared for it.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 12:05 PM) I am sittng here wondering how much time and money should have been spent on the possibility that NO would take a direct hit, and the levees would break, and this and that. While we have an unlimted budget to destroy and rebuild Iraq, we don't have an unlimited budget to mobilize thousands of people and tons of equipment on a worse case scenario. All that has to be balanced in the response. Can you imagine the headlines $67,000,000 spent on diaster that never came. What a waste of our tax dollars. Let's see. Projections indicated a 95%+ chance that a C4 or C5 hurricance would hit the Gulf Coast, probably at or near New Orleans. They didn't know for sure the exact point of coastal contact, but the otherwise knew to a very high degree of certainty what would happen. If we can't spend 67M on that, then this country has its priorities out of order.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46382

QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) Oh yeah, and the weather report has never been wrong, that's a weak example. Brown's out at FEMA, that's what your advocating. I agree with it. Now, if these same mistakes are made again I'm gonna be pissed. Kinda "Fool me once..." I disagree that "the entire country" saw what was going to happen. Hindsight is great, isn't it? This is not hindsight - I saw it ahead of time, and I recall discussing it with others. There were about a dozen different computer-projected tracks on one map I saw while the thing was still well into the Gulf, and they were all within a relatively short distance of NO. I remember thinking, they're gonna get slammed. Those tracks may not be perfect, but when you see all the models at once, you get an idea of the track within a very high degree of accuracy. QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) Anyway, are you guys watching this? Brown is already getting s***ty and hasn't been being questioned that long. Yeah, I put a link in for it. He started off with some pontification of sorts, about process and control. Now he's foundering.

"Brownie" testifying today... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_...atrina_congress Says it was DHS' fault. Now, I agree that FEMA should never been put under DHS (for that matter, there should never have been a DHS). But for him to say that kept him from responding is just assinine. This guy has made every excuse in the book. He's just inept.

QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 10:40 AM) Yes, it was ll over the news for bloody days, but as I remember it wasn't predicted to be a direct hit on New Orleans until late. Nagin didn't declare an evacuation until less than 24 hous before landfall. Katrina wasn't updated to Cat 5 until exactly 24 hours before landfall and landed as a Cat 4. I refuse to believe that people, humand people, should be able to see the future. As I said, mistakes were made. Hearings and investigations will reveal that and correct it in the future. This was worse than anything they've ever had to deal with. If you don't put the responsibility on the shoulders of FEMA to properly respond to what the entire country saw, then what's the point of them preparing at all? Your argument is dangerous. I expect FEMA to act like what it is - the world's foremost emergency management agency. If they can't read a damn weather report (which all clearly pointed out DAYS before hand that it would likely become a C4 or 5, and would be at or near NO), then fire the decision makers and get someone in there who knows his a** from a rathole. You see, we can see into the future. I do it every time I turn on the weather channel.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 08:59 AM) You don't get it man...Bush hates black people. I almost forgot about that until Carter reminded me at Coretta Scott King's funeral. Claims of bigotry, or malice, from the Feds or any level of government as a whole, are baseless. There are racist people in this country, but I don't believe that any entire government agency acted differently towards NO because it is majority black. I simply believe that the EM response of all levels of government was less than I'd expect from a bunch of second graders.

QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 10, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) Disecting is great! Pointing fingers and accusing people of racism is not! FEMA was overwelmed. Something this big had never happened before. I don't fault them for be overwelmed. Oh come on - you don't fault them? It was obvious to me, and others I knew, that LA was in for the storm of the century. It was all over the bloody news for days, and all the NOAA and other tracks put a C4 or C5 hurricane squarely on New Orleans. And oh yeah, the city SAID the levees may not be able to hold a C4, let alone a C4 hurrincane. This was all BEFORE the storm hit. It was utter and complete incompetence. No, I do not believe there was any bit of malice, or even a lack of caring, on Bush's part. Bush was a little slow in pushing things along, but really I only fault him for one thing: his laughably idiotic placement of Brown at the head of FEMA. The biggest blame absolutely falls to him, and the rest of the FEMA structure. And yes, they could have done many, many things that they did not, and that was clear well before the storm hit. And Mr. YAS, I am not sure where you get this state-first thing. But I've actually worked in law enforcement and EMS. Response to an unexpected disaster does indeed tend to cascade up the chain: local - state - fed. But that is just due to the nature of communications, not some rule or law, and thats for something unexpected. This was expected, and it was known that it would effect multple states and hundreds of municipalities. Therefore, the expectation of organization and command rightly falls to the Feds. Obviously, the state of LA screwed up too, and could have better handled its resources. But this was FEMA's screw up from the get-go.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 06:16 PM) You can have a 'shoe bomb' with just enough force to blow through the cockpit door - and not the shell of the plane. This is not realistic. Those doors are now pretty secure. With the metal locks and cross members, you'd either have to have a bomb with enough force to destroy the metal bolt, or one pwerful enough to destroy the entire rest of the door, leaving a large hole to pass through. Either way, that's a powerful explosion, and it would to a lot more than blow up the door. You'd probably do all kinds of electrical and structural damage to the cockpit and bulkhead, and quite possibly make the plane unflyable (or send it crashing to the ground).

QUOTE(gar102 @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 10:12 PM) Do you how the process works for 27 game ticket holders? Do you go thru your account o chisox or need a special password? You should receive an email on Tuesday morning, prior to or around 10am, with a special password. It is then an online process. Call your rep. Make sure they have your correct email address, and that you are set up for receiving the email.

QUOTE(gar102 @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 07:54 PM) The 14th is that for full season ticket holders only or does it include 27 game ticket holders? Includes 27 gamers

QUOTE(MarkBuehrle_TheAce @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 05:31 PM) am I the only sox fan in this forum who happens to beleive that jerry owens should be our starter in center? with him batting second, if he can hit .285 OR higher, and steal 20 bases, then our lineup would be that much more dangerous. case in point, owens would create a lot more opportunities for konerko/thome/dye to get rbi's, and we would sequatially score more runs I'm not opposed to the idea. I think he should get a shot in ST, and I think he will. Likely the job is Anderson's, but I think Owens should get a chance at it. I think he would fit in quite well. Most people here, though, feel Owens would do better with another year in the minors.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 05:29 PM) You're confusing the 2 Andrew's of the 1800's. Andrew Jackson was 1828-1836. Johnson was Right after Lincoln. Jackson was the one who went after the National Bank and sent the country into a large recession, Jackson was the one who used force to evict and march a large number of native americans across the country, killing many, etc. Johnson was the one who was impeached. D'OH!!! You are correct. I meant Jackson, not Johnson, and Jackson was not impeached. Jackson was the exterminator, and the one who was certifiably paranoid. And he sent the Indians cross country. And he had the bank thing. Sheesh, how embarrassing. I wrote papers on this in college (I tooks some Am In studies courses). So I change my vote to Jackson for the biggest loser Prez!

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 05:02 PM) Let me preface this by saying that Andrew Johnson was a pretty ineffective President. Johnson was impeached because he violated the Tenure of Office Act by firing Secretary of War Edwin Stanton. The ToOA was passed over Johnson's veto, and was later declared unconstitutional. He was certainly not impeached for any corruption in his administration. He was in a power struggle with the radical elements of the Republican party, and they thought they could oust him. As it was, they failed to convict him by one vote in the Senate. I'm not giving him a pass on his treatment of Indians and Blacks, but he was close to the mainstream of thought at that time. Buchanan, on the other hand, had a chance to either garrison Federal forts in the South with loyal troops or, failing that, secure all the arms and ship them to the north. He did neither. I gotta go, but I like this stuff, so I'll be back. I guess my impression was that his impeachment was more about the banking scandals (Balta refers to it) than that firing, and that the firing was more like the tax evasion that got Capone in jail. I guess its stupidity and lack of forethought (Buchanan) versus mild paranoid insanity and hatred (Johnson). I still think Johnson takes the cake. Plus, Johnson's legacy still lives today in a lot of the policy still effecting Indians (the Dawes Act, while outside his presidency, has its roots in Johnsons policies). Is there anything of Buchanan still roaming about?