NorthSideSox72

QUOTE(WCSox @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 12:48 PM) And if I'm of legal age to purchase alcohol but cannot produce proof of my age, I'm denied my Constitutional right to purchase alcohol. There's no difference. You really think there is no difference, huh? You don't see the difference between the right to PURCHASE alcohol (notice the key verb there) and the right to VOTE (again, key verb)? You see, one requires money. The other does not. if there was a Constitutional right to free, unabated access to alcohol, then they'd be the same thing.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 12:45 PM) So once again... how do you stop people from committing voter fraud without using IDs? You don't. You require IDs, and make sure there is some way to get a free ID. Driving is a privilege, so you can still charge for those. But for those who just want a simple state ID to vote, that should be free.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 11:51 AM) You cant play what ifs in this situation. We drank at our after prom party, and we stayed at a place where there was no driving, with adults nearby in case of emergency. Nobody got hurt, and everyone had a great time. Were we still wrong? Of course we can play "what ifs". If we couldn't, there wouldn't be DUI laws, and drunk drivers wouldn't be arrested until they hurt someone. There are all sorts of laws on the books to prevent dangerous activities because of the likelihood of something bad happening as a result. That's a "what if".

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 06:36 PM) Yep, that's pretty funny. A guy that I went to grade school with thought that peopel spoke Irish in Ireland. This was back in like 7th grade, though. Chad is a grown man. Good God, I can't even begin to imagine all of the basic s*** that he doesn't know. He probably thinks that the United States won the Civil War, and that it took place in the 1960s over in Europe. Um... people DO speak Irish in Ireland. You might know it as Gaelic. It's still an official language there, still on street signs in some places, etc.

Speaking of Die Another Day... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060203/ap_en_...le_lee_tamahori Weird.

Here's my question: Why does anyone listen to these irritating shock jocks to begin with? I don't get it. I just don't see the appeal of listening to a bunch of hateful adolescents insulting everyone and everything.

QUOTE(mreye @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 10:12 AM) Huh? I think the Bush/Monkey pictures are funny. There is certainly some good humor out there targeted at the GOP. I like those daily calendars that have a different bizarre Bush quote on them for each day. I wish I had one.

QUOTE(kevin57 @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 10:00 AM) Interesting...most of the really funny stuff comes from the GOP side. Democrat humor (e.g., Franken et al.) is nasty, not funny. Maybe because the GOP likes to gloat a lot. I don't see that so much from the Dems when they are in the White House or Congress. Certainly though, its easier to laugh about it when you control the white house and both congressional bodies.

QUOTE(Spiff @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 03:54 AM) Yeah, well they didn't hurt anyone. You don't punish people for crimes they could possibly commit. As it was they didn't hurt anyone. Victimless crime; and if you want to relate it to "yourself", how would you like it if you were drinking underage, didn't hurt anyone, and you still got 2 weeks in jail? By your definition, the following crimes are victimless (in that no one was hurt) and should be allowed to be ignored: DUI Assault by threat to life Sexual assault - peeping "tom" Distribution of child pornography Purchase or possession of a gun by convicted violent felon Aggravated assault - threatening someone with a gun Shall I go on? The "victimless" crime defense, along with the "everyone does it" defense, are childish at best. I am not sure 21 is such a magic age, but clearly, most high school kids (like these buffoons) don't have enough responsibility to make good judgement while sober. They are downright dangerous, to themselves and others, when drunk.

I would like to see a more accurate unemployment measure, over time (not just current). I never thought that the measure was an accurate portrayal, considering the math. People not "actively seeking" employment are out of the pool. I do think it gives you some idea, as a leading indicator, of where the job market is going. But I think the reality of unemployment is not fully captured in that number. So while I think this is good news, I also think you'll see that number go back up as the year goes on, when more people go back into the work force. Then, if the economy can stay strong, it will dip again. JMO.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 06:47 PM) Everyone over the age of 20 has to pay to obtain some sort of photo ID necessary to purchase alcoholic beverages (which we have the Constitutional RIGHT to buy/sell/drink). Nobody complains about that. I completely agree that poll taxes are wrong. But if the problem is that poor people can't afford $30 for their voting cards, I'll gladly give them the money out of my own pocket... right after I take back the contribution that my taxes make towards their subsidized housing. Its clear you don't understand what constitutes a legal right. Fortunately, the courts do, which is why every attempt to force any sort of poll tax (even indirect ones) has failed in the courts. A person has to be allowed to vote regardless of financial situation - that's a Constitutional right. And no, you do NOT have the Constitutional right to drink. Read the amendments. Alcohol can rightly be distributed, sold and bought. There is nothing in the Constitution about ensuring that you get a drink every four years. There is something in there about voting. Again, ID at the polls is fine with me, and will be fine with the courts as long as it doesn't place a financial burden on the voter. If anyone wants to place a bet on how this will go over in the courts if they DON'T provide free IDs or an alternative, I'll gladly take you to the cleaners.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:53 PM) Given that people need to pay money for food and shelter to fulfill their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I don't think that asking for $30 or $40 one-time processing charge for a national ID is a big deal. OK. How about $20 to go to Church? $30 to speak your mind about a politician? $50 to walk down the street? It's a major tenet of law in this country that RIGHTS are not to be paid for. That's why poll taxes were struck down. PRIVILEGES (and driving is, BTW, a privilege in the legal sense, not a right), can be charged for.

QUOTE(Spiff @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:48 PM) If they were caught doing it in the act I'd agree but the judge is just being a sore ass. That is one of the lamest defenses I've ever heard. And believe me, in my previous line of work, I heard a few. Including that one. I laughed. A lot. You actually think people should only get in trouble when they are caught in the act? How can you say that with a straight face?

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:29 PM) First round winners: FlaSoxxJim mreye Wong & Owens All debates were close. They were very enjoyable to read. The English Major / Teacher I lined up was impressed by many of the posts. We will give Rex and Sam a couple days to wrap up and get round two underway. I will have a short survey going out to the winners to help in selecting a second round question. If any posters have any ideas, please PM them to me. Round 2 will be FlaSoxxJim vs. mreye and Wong & Owens vs. Winner Good luck. My hat is off to FlaSoxxJim on a good debate. I'm thinking he's headed for a championship. Tex, I'll be sure to PM you some topic ideas.

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:40 PM) If we pass a law requiring everyone to show ID when they vote, in the name of prohibiting fraud, then we also need to pass a law that requires the manufacturers of any computer used in an election to have open-source software, accessible by all interested parties. Fraud, after all, cuts both ways. ^^^^^^^^^ True dat. And before anyone screams "hackers!", remember these are non-networked machines, with very rudimentary I/O ports and simplistic code. Nothing there to hack, no software that can execute foreign code. Nothing to hack with.

Bayh urges Dems to use security issues against Republicans: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060202/pl_nm/bayh_dc I put this in Indie because I think Bayh is one of a few viable centrist candidates on either slate as a 2008 Prez hopeful. I think he's got the right idea here for any candidate. Instead of allowing the GOP to rule the security issue by way of fear, challenge them on it! And further, suggest some better strategies.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) I was making a seperate point. I understood what you said just fine and I agree that we dont need to make a special ID that costs people money, especially when a simple photo ID gets it done. What I am saying is that there needs to be a state ID that is free. No need for a special ID, yes, I agree. But further, a driver's license or state ID (or both) need to be available free of charge. We cannot charge for a right. if you expect people to show an ID that costs money to vote, then you have enacted a poll tax, which is the worst kind of classist discrimination. Do you think paying for your Constitutional rights is OK? Should you have to pay to speak your mind or practice your religious beliefs?

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 03:58 PM) Why not just require people to show a photo ID when they go in to vote? A drivers license would get it done and its certainly universal enough already. Oh wait, I forgot. You cant make people show ID when they vote because thats racist. Thats Jesse Jackson speak for "we want black people to vote multiple times for Democratic candidates and if you try to stop us from committing this fraud you're a bigot". :rolly You've missed the point. Driver's license is fine. State ID is fine. Whatever works. But there MUST be some sort of state ID available that is free, or else you are expecting people to pay for a Constitutionally-granted right. There is no logical argument that can be made for that to be OK. As for the "racist" thing, I didn't even hint at that. Race is irrelevant to me. Is it to you?

One more thing on this subject. If a terrorist attack occurs on US soil in the next few years, I guarantee that someone in the Bush administration will hint (or say straight out) that it was the fault of people who "leaked" this information.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 02:19 PM) Why wouldn't you pay for a passport? It involves processing and research right? Why should someone else pay taxes to subsidize a persons travel outside of the US? Agreed. Travelling outside the US is not a US-granted right. Voting, on the other hand, is. If you require IDs, they'd better the heck be free, or else you are charging for a right.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060202/ap_on_...igence_congress This guy is so full of it, its coming out of his ears. I am really tiring of the use of fearmongering as a political tactic. Someone please tell me how intelligence assets have been rendered unuseable (his words), simply because someone leaked that fact that such wiretaps were going on. I mean, are they serious? Do they think that no one knew that the NSA and CIA were capable of this stuff? Of COURSE they knew! Nothing has been compromised as a result of this. The only thing relevant or shocking about the "leak" was that these taps were being done without a warrant. No one questioned that such taps existed, and no one leaked any specific information (in the news I have seen). Its also scary to see his quotes about the "culture of secrecy". Obviously, the CIA and NSA need to keep specific intel secret. No one has jeapordized that in the slightest (except when the White House leaked the name of a certain spy's spouse). So, is it the position of the CIA that "culture of secrecy" means that no one should know that the CIA is doing its job? That its tracking terrorists? GMAFB.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 12:07 PM) Each state report their numbers differently. Texas for example lies to themselves in their numbers. If a kid stops attending and says he plans on getting a GED, he hasn't dropped out. If he fails to ever take the GED test, he has dropped out of GED, not High School. Down here in these school districts, we have a large migrant population. If they say they are heading north to a new school, there is no follow up if they ever do register with another school. I was working with the school administration on an Apprenticship Program and the estimates I heard, for what common sense tells us is the drop out rate, was 50-60%. That is figured by taking all incoming Freshman then looking at those getting a high school diploma. In one racially and economically profiled population, it was estimated at 75% drop out rate. I am going to assume that other areas have the same problem. How this balances with New Trier or Conant numbers and becomes I national average, I don't know. But if we can't agree on a definition of what it is to drop out, how can anyone accurately quote a number? New Trier's graduation rate was 96% or higher during the late 80's and early 90's. It was 100% some years.

I am personally fine with IDs required for voters, just like I am OK with FOID cards. BUT, in both cases, they are IDs required to obtain something given to citizens by Constitutional right. Therefore, they should ONLY be required if they are completely, 100% free. So, if Ohio wants this thing to pass the courts, they would be better protected if they found a way to provide state IDs free of charge. That would also be the right thing to do. You cannot charge for a right.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 1, 2006 -> 08:54 PM) the Catholic church needs to let priests get married or this kind of stuff will never end. they are attracting the wrong types of people to be priests. I agree that they should allow marriage for priests. But, I don't see these things as highly connected. The real thing to do, if you want to prevent the Priesthood from becoming a bastion for molesters, is to drop the hammer on the ones who offend. Defrock them, and hand them right over to the police for prosecution.

Kudos to the judge. Heck, he gave them a chance in the first place, giving them probation. These kids deserved, and apparently needed, exactly what they got.