NorthSideSox72

No talent is worth that amount of clubhouse overhead. Everyone has a limit to how far they'd be willing to stretch their standards to win - this is beyond my limit (and I'd bet beyond that of some in the Sox organization as well). It's not as if this is his first problem with the law. I'm sorry but everything I've read leads me to believe the guy is... well... a far cry from an upstanding citizen. I'll pass.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:43 PM) When researching and selecting one of America's Long Trails to add I looked at ease of getting there, months of good weather, etc. The Appalachian has name recognition and you are correct some killer views. It also has some of the most difficult climbs. Not enough room for knee relieving switchbacks. Pacific Crest Trail was too difficult to get to from a trailhead perspective. The AT is gorgeous, just as the CDT and PCT, in different ways. Or the Ice Age trail for that matter. But for pure granduer, and challenge, I'll take the CDT. The number of people who finish the CDT in a given year is less that 10. You'll be alone or nearly alone for two-thirds of it. The AT is, at times, like a superhighway of hikers.

After reading 6 *&^#*&$^ pages of this thread, are we still posting at this rate because some online poster called "Ralph Malph" says he heard the rumor going around?! :headshake I mean really, is there anything else on this?

If it's Rosenthal's $5M over 2, then I'm on board with this being a pretty darn good trade. It's it's the $8M, then I'm ecstatic.

QUOTE(Steff @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:07 PM) MT has one of the best, if not the best, attitudes. His rivals that of only Pujols that I can think of off the top of my head. I only knew about the recent complaining. If he's otherwise had a history of being an actual team player, then I do feel a lot better about the possibility.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:01 PM) It's kind of interesting, there are the exceptions. However, it seems the younger you are, the less you like this deal. I don't know what that means. Wow. I guess I must REALLY like this deal then. Oh wait... I mean hate it! Yeah, I really hate this deal! Word. Shiznit. er... something.

There is one thing that scares me a bit about getting Tejada, and it's the same thing that scares me with Vazquez - attitude. You can dismiss it all you want (which some people will), but the team last year had a lot of guys that would grind it out big time, day in and day out. These two guys have been doing a lot of complaining lately, and haven't exactly proven to be great presences. I'm just saying, that may have an effect on the clubhouse, and that effect can't be measured with their stats.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:42 AM) You're serious? In your opinion, Javier Vazquez is worth El Duque, the sixth starter of sorts, Vizcaino, a contributing member of the bullpen, Chris Young, on pace to be this teams staple in CF beginning as early as 2007, and $5M cash? I suppose the logical thing to do here would be wait until Kenny's plan is executed to its completion, but, knee-jerk reaction: just don't like it. Naturally, I'll still devote as much of my "fandom" to this club as ever before. We all know this. Yes, I'm serious. Yes, I think a guy who at worst is a solid #5 starter and at best could be huge is at least equal to El Duque (5.11, 4329857438 years old and injured a lot), Vizcaino (a decent middle reliever but nothing special) and an OF prospect (when we have Anderson, Owens and Sweeney in the wings). This is true to me, as long as we get that cash (because Vazquez is not a $12.5M pitcher). Yes, I think another deal is coming, probably involving Garland, making Vazquez all the more important. I figured you'd not really be sacrificing your support of the team, dude. I was just surprised at your post that sounded otherwise.

QUOTE(kevin57 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:32 AM) I can't provide a source, but I heard we'll be getting $5M in the deal. Then I think the deal is pretty good.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:30 AM) He lost me, TQ. I'm just awestruck. He lost me. He's going to have to earn this supporter--and his money, devotion, and time at the ballpark--back. Oh come on. One trade, which may not be great (though I think it is, as long as we got significant cash), and you throw away your devotion to the team? And when it seems like another deal is coming? :headshake

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:29 AM) According to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick, the White Sox have acquired pitcher Javier Vazquez from the Diamondbacks for Orlando Hernandez, RP Luis Vizcaino and outfield prospect Chris Young. Arizona is sending money to the White Sox so the deal needs the approval of the commissioner Bud Selig before being official. Dec. 14 - 11:05 am et Source: espn.com we are getting the cash too! We'd better be, else this trade is terrible. Unless he's being flipped.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:03 AM) Gload is gone anmd maybe Ozuna if we do any other trades. I see us going with a six man rotation next year with B Mac being added. I wonder who will be the bullpen long man though. If there are any more moves I think it will be there unless B Mac goes to the pen. I don't see the OF'er trade becasue we still need to be cognizant of money and Anderson and others may step in as has been previosuly mentioned. Ozuna was singed to a new contract not too long ago, he can play 3B, SS, 1B, corner OF, has speed to pinch run... he's not going anywhere. Whether we go 4 or 5 players on the bench, he's in, along with Widger and Mack.

Viz is pretty replaceable, especially now that it appears Hermy's rehab is going well. El Duque was an extra cog, and wasn't going to be reliable. Would have been ideal (although pricey) as a long relief guy, but he wouldn't be happy there. Shame about Young, though. Really, it's about the money. If we get $4M+ back from ARZ (to effectively make Vazquez' salary 8.5M), then I'm good with it. If no money comes through, then I'm not happy. Thing is, I think there's another deal in the wings here. Someone else is going to be moved for a LHRP. I'll wait and see.

The more this sinks in, the more I think about the money. That's a big key. We gave up El Duque (4.5M), Viz (1.3+ for Arb, call it 2M), and Young, which is 6.5M or so. Vazquez will cost 12.5M in 2006. If we can get 4M or more in 2006 as makeup money, then I think I'm happy. That would mean we only extended by $2M, and got a healthier, younger starter, with some serious high end potential. We had a crowd in the 'pen from the right side anyway, and we are now hearing that Hermy's re-hab is going well (I know, I predicted previously he'd be out, but recent reports seem to make me wrong). If on the other hand we have to take all 12.5M, then I think we overpaid by a lot.

Steff- I am really glad to hear and see this. Feels weird, I have no idea who you or anyone else is on this board, but I felt a real attachment to what was going on here. I am really happy for you and yours that the recovery is going well! The fact that the little one was born on my birthday probably added to the effect. I'll keep you guys in my thoughts. -

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:46 AM) I have both Quetico and Gila on my life list. I will probably do boundary waters from the Northern Tier Boy Scout Camp in the next couple years. Gila may be more of a stretch. How many days were you out at Gila? Is water an issue, or do you have to carry it all? How was the elevation? I live at about 22 feet above sea level, 10,000 feet will be thin air for me. When my son was at Philmont this summer in New Mexico, the 8,000 peaks kicked their butts a bit. A man after my own heart! Do Quetico. It's like the Boundary Waters, only a lot more secluded, no motorboats allowed (BWCA allows small motors on some lakes), better fishing, more peace and quiet. You can start from the BWCAW side and paddle across the border (but you need permits for Quetico, and a Backcountry Access permit from Canadian Customs). Gila, surprisingly, has water. A fair amount of it. We hiked a circuit from the Mogollon Road that took us around the Gila Wilderness area, and we used various springs and creeks - never had to carry more than a day's worth of water. A good USGS quad, or good mapping software (like MapTech Terrain Navigator) will show the springs, and I think the Gila NF map will too. The Black Range area of Gila, further east in the Aldo Leopold Wilderness Area, is drier and has less water, but is also spectacular. If you want any info or details on either one, just PM me. I'll happily let you in on some good secret spots, good trails and circuits, etc. Also, if you want to see some pictures of Quetico or Gila, here is a link: http://www.middleofsomewhere.com/main.asp?sec=diaries Just clock the camera icon next to any of the Quetico trips, or the one Gila trip.

I for one am relieved that it was El Duque, and not the Contreras or Garland that was mentioned in earlier rumors. I can live with this deal. In fact, as long as we get some salary-relief cash for Vazquez, I think I like it a lot.

The statistics are interesting. But frankly, I don't think what Hahn said is exactly ground-breaking, or even worthy of calling a "method". He tries to add players who will be responsible for scoring more runs and/or reducing opponent runs. Well... duh. But figuring out how much run-impact a player will have is definitely interesting. Once all the available calculations are taken into account, your function will still only be allowed to approach a phantom target, though. Stats can't average in predictors for the unpredictable human elements. They only take you so far.

Oh, see, now you've got me distracted the rest of the day. So much for concentrating on work. Favorite place on earth... In a canoe, on Lake MacKenzie, Quetico Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada. or maybe... sitting on my pack on Hummingbird Saddle, Gila Wilderness Area, New Mexico or even... wandering aimlessly around Salisbury, U.K. But more than likely, I'll have to go with the answer given by kapkomet... I haven't been there yet.

Another possibility to consider: This may be a rumor being pushed around the table as a subtle manipulation in the contract negotiations. KW is a pretty savvy guy. This message says "we could replace you if we needed to". And remember, the Sox have very rarely had to go to the arbitration table. Smells a little like a red herring to me.

if JG has said something to the Sox that makes it clear he won't come back for any reasonable salary after 2006, then I'm all for shopping him around. But not for this deal. Vazquez is, at best, similar in pitching skills to Garland. But, Vazquez is going to cost us $11.5M and $12.5M for the next two years (ARZ has said they won't pick up cash). That's ridiculous money, and we could probably convince JG for that amount, so why trade? And, what's not being mentioned much by people here is that this guy is giving every indication of being a head case. He had a sub-par season when he appeared to be reaching his prime, he requests a trade then says he didn't but he obviously does, says he wants to be on the east coast to be closer to PR (lots of places closer to PR than, say, Boston or NY, so why East Coast?), etc. This guy does not put out a good vibe to me. In short, if we do it, we'd better get some significant cash and/or prospects to go with him, given the downgrade in value and clubhouse presence (and possibly performance) we'd have to take.

That is the funniest holiday e-card type thing I have ever seen.

--Let Owens and Anderson battle it out for the starting CF job (sounds like Ozzie goes back and forth there right now) --Loser of that battle goes to AAA so they can play every day (Likely this will be Owens, but not 100% for sure - Owens is looking awfully good and could hit 2nd) --Make Borchard your 4th - he's out of minor league options, has a lot of talent, and wouldn't benefit from more minor league time anyway. --If Borch gets traded, put the loser of Anderson/Owens in the 4th spot.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 10:30 AM) Nope...only your tuition costs will be deductible. Correct. Along with any interest paid on government-controlled or contracted student loans, once you leave school.

QUOTE(chisox2334 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 12:43 AM) he Sox barely fell short... Source please? Where did this come from? Did you write it?