captain54

QUOTE (Special K @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) Does the Shields trade win the award for worst trade of the 2016 season? Having trouble thinking of worse trades... More WSCR insanity… yesterday they had Football Know-It-All Hub ('I've never actually played or coached sports in any capacity) Arkush, for some inexplicable reason, taking calls from White Sox callers and commenting on the Shields trade… Hub said that fans should keep their mouths shut because everyone was on board when Shields was signed… when the hostile tweets and texts started pouring in, Hub got all bent out of shape and annoyed and ticked off very entertaining..

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 08:19 PM) Time will tell. I'm just looking forward to very few complaining on these boards once they do move forward with the rebuild. I'm not sure what some people are going to do if they can't complain any more. Give the fans credit, complaining or non complaining, for at least populating boards like this and showing some interest. It's been a brutal run of baseball, and the complainers could very well have turned into who-gives-a-damners

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:05 PM) I was hoping they'd give it one more crack before starting the rebuild but I guess everyone here gets what they want now. Should see a surge in attendance the next few years since this is what everyone wants to see. Yippee another 5 years of sub .500 baseball Hahn himself at the deadline said that an offseason moving of players made more sense mainly cause teams are less likely to move established major leaguers at the deadline, that are in contention So if things don't work out again in 2017, push the rebuilding back another year, to 2018 The Sox are in a unique position this offseason, in a sellers market...the franchise has never been in this strong of a position to set the franchise up for years to come. And maybe not as many down years as you would think. Quite possibility the FO might just be better at this major overhaul thing. As has been mentioned, the sheer numbers of a haul they can accomplish could very well overshadow their scouting and talent evaluation shortcomings

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 04:40 PM) What's your definition of "anyone of any impact"? Players that can, according to your standard, magically transform the Sox into "a team that can absolutely compete for a play off spot" And I don't mean jumping over 5 or 6 teams and 5 or 6 back of WC 2 for the duration of the year.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 04:07 PM) How do you know this? well, let's put it this way.. the kind of payroll that is required to acquire anyone of any impact…. not impossible but unlikely..

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 02:24 PM) And still the only baseball championship that either side of town has witnessed during our lifetime is the one following an offseason of patching obvious holes at catcher, second base, right field, fifth starter, and bullpen with mid-tier free agents and trades. Sound familiar? Yes, the sound of a decade and counting of failure following the magical season sounds familiar.. You could equally argue that if in fact, the Sox held the key to the promised land, and Kenny Blowhard has the magic touch with slapping Spackle and having the gonads to dump a key cog in the 05 team, your center fielder for Thome, signing your Adam Dunns, your Sharks, your Griffey's, and your Manny Ramirez's…how have they not been able to duplicate for such a long period? Not only not duplicate, but run the table in the opposite direction? the crappy small market, low budget Oakland A's have been to the playoffs 3 times in the last 5 yrs…it's embarrassing.. In all your conjectures and scenarios, you still have no answers to what happens with Shields and his $11/M, or how in God's name this bullpen is gonna get fixed… just saying that it should be dynamite because Petricka and Putnam are back and Burdi and some other Joe Blow no name failed starter are gonna rock the house .. not very convincing… The biggest hole of all in your argument, dude….is that JR is gonna all of sudden magically add payroll.. not gonna happen...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) Why would you give up possibly getting lucky vs. a guaranteed 4 or 5 years of being awful and then if everything goes right it still may not work out to your requirements? Because Sox fandom, and by fandom I mean, the paying customer, is at probably the lowest point that I can recall, in terms of having faith in the franchise Should the Sox dump their two stars just for the sake of dumping? As a PR marketing move? Of course not. But a combination of a flipped roster rejuvenated with young talent along with a flipped front office and manager? I'd rather see the Sox roll the dice on that scenario, by far. How many more years of failure against the Central and under .500 seasons do we need to be convinced that these guys at 35th and Shields are more or less incapable of making it happen at this point, (or have egos to big to admit) under the patch-and-go system?

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 08:21 AM) Also if the Sox are going in that direction I'd much prefer to have a different front office pulling those strings. Now you're all over the place. You don't trust the front office, but yet you're on board with them retooling with basically the same approach as has been exhibited over multiple seasons. Mix and match a bunch of middling, serviceable players.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 09:43 PM) Fowler - CF Eaton - RF Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Melky - LF Moreland or Alvarez (whoever is cheaper) - DH Wieters - C Lawrie/Saladino - 2B Anderson - SS Sale, Q, Rodon, Gonzalez, Fulmer/Volquez That team should absolutely compete for a playoff spot next year IMO. Wouldn't take a drastic payroll increase either. Your standard Chicago White Sox All In Plan for (insert year) 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 Kind of comforting to have it back for 17', like a warm and fuzzy old friend. This brings to mind something I heard from an old Mexican gent. Or maybe it was Minnie Minoso at SoxFest ..can't recall "Oscillation con los ojos vendados a una piñata con el tiempo te dispara" Roughly Translated "If you take enough blindfolded swings at a piñata, you never know. You could actually hit it"

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 05:54 PM) And obviously you aren't willing to wait another 4 months of next season to start the rebuild. I am. I'd like to see it played out before unloading all of our major league pieces of value. Clearly many here think the White Sox have no chance to compete for a playoff spot next year with 3 or 4 acquisitions this offseason but I do. I don't think they are as far away as many here are portraying. There is so much parity in the AL and in the Central even with the way the Indians are playing that I believe plugging the gaping holes in this 25 man roster will result in a much better and more balanced team. It wouldn't take a star player to get much more production out of C, DH, CF, and 5th starter. Bullpens are funny too - add Burdi, return Putnam and Petricka, and pick up another arm and that will look like a completely revamped pen. Again, if they are out of it next July, sell the pieces then when they are arguably even more valuable than during the offseason. Your hypothesis has more holes than a 76-77 throwback jersey after Chris Sale got his hands on it With a limited payroll, weak FA buyers class upcoming, and not a lot of real strong prospects,to get anything of serious value ..what voodoo is the Sox FO going to perform by holding on to anything of real value, and still yet catapult themselves to an AL Central contender by opening day 2017? How do you see them acquiring these 3 or 4 acquisitions you speak of? With every passing opening day, you are closer to the Crown Jewels of the Franchise. Sale and Quintana ..being closer to the day they will no longer be cost controlled.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 09:30 AM) Wait, the Tigers? That is your example? The deal who spent forever dealing their farm system for veterans and then signing huge contracts? Ok. Stop yourself already. Just stop. Look at the standings. Any attempt to justify the Sox approach as opposed to casting a negative tone on the Detroit approach. Is here by cast as null and void

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 12:37 PM) This proves we're really not competing against the Cubs and are in a kind media market. Think if there was a really negative media member like Mariotti around? If somebody was around to rip the Sox on a daily basis and compare their s***show to the Cubs, it might change the perception. the media is just ignoring the Sox instead of blasting the organization daily. It's probably because there basically is no media anymore with all the outlets running bare-bones operations. the only news media outlet in Chicago that anyone really pays attention to anymore is the Tribune. and even though they relinquished a great majority of their stake in the Cubs 7 yrs ago, you will still have Sox fans claiming Cub bias when anyone of the Trib writers goes all negative on the Sox…. which is something I never quite understood….

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Sep 2, 2016 -> 03:17 PM) Understanding and also patience. The Sox have had a lot of bad luck, bad breaks and bad timing. There is a plenty of time until Opening Day 2017 to improve the team. Insert same thought process for 2013, 2014, 2015 What sort of bad luck, bad timing and breaks caused pretty much near the worst record in MLB since early May? How about instead of the usual inane corporate speak from the FO as to what the "new plan" is, or Kenny Williams spouting, "we'll figure it out", the fans hear " we're embarrassed as an organization and we know the fans deserve better. There will be shake ups in the organization to end this run of bad, mediocre baseball"

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 12:10 PM) And in addition to their rebuild, they also have a fan base that afforded them a high level of attendance during their rebuild which allowed them to spend something like half a billion dollars in new contracts to supplement that rebuild. We don't have that luxury. Why not? The White Sox are a big market team with potential to draw. The numbers were there after 2005. They are in a major TV market and with the explosion of growth of the SW burbs, a much wider potential fan base than the Cubs Also, as has been stated .. The comparisons to the KC and Pitts teams of the past are irrelevant. Small market teams..their droughts were in a different financial era of baseball

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) Who was he supposed to put out there? Melky is sick, Coats is down. He didn't have many options My bad. Didn't know Melky and Coats were unavailable

Nice defensive move by Ventura to put Avi in left. Any consolation is that if any series was a micrososm and exposure of the state of this franchise. This was it

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 01:01 AM) Also, interesting side note: funny that mobile devices seem to auto correct Internet to be capitalized now. Haha My mobile wanted INTERNET. I had to slap it down

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 11:50 PM) The Internet can be an easy place to receive a false sense of esteem in very lowly avenues. The Internet also is an easy place to speak one's mind, call out other posters, question their fandom, and not have to deal with the consequences of a face to face confrontation

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) I don't think the White Sox are going anywhere outside of the Chicagoland area. I would think the fans of the Cleveland Indians and the Tampa Bay Rays have much more to worry about than White Sox fans do. Both of those teams are bringing in alot less revenue than what the White Sox are. I don't know when the leases for the stadiums are up for renewal in Cleveland and St. Pete but it should be interesting to see what happens to those 2 franchises when that happens. The Rays Tropicana lease expires in 2027, and the Indians Progressive lease in 2023

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) What else is Hahn going to say here?? We will see how the off season goes to see who is really running things.. If it's another half ass reload we know it's not Hahn. Comments from KW earlier in the week indicated that the problems in 2016 were 'spearheaded" by bullpen injuries…. I take that to mean they are of the opinion that the catalyst for the horrific tumble after the 23-10 was the two guys in the pen that went down… That certainly addresses the issue of how the Sox got to lead the league in Blown Saves, and possibly how a closer ends up being one of the league leader in blown saves, but those stretches of non-existent offense, account equally for why the team is in the state it's in….IMHO

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 05:17 PM) poop. Caca I can swear better than you!! I win!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 05:46 PM) What possible indicator do we have...objectively...that Hahn/Williams would be able to make this team a contender with another $25 million per season to spend? It seems logical enough, but there's not much evidence to support it. The best White Sox team in the last 15 years ago had one of, if not the smallest payrolls of any of those teams. If White Sox fans were Cubs-like sheeple attending games oblivious to the dismal results, there would be even less likelihood of changes being made. the Indians have worse attendance numbers than the Sox. They have spent $20M or so less than the Sox. They have the 2nd best record in the AL and lead the Central Then we have this: The fan base is the fan base. It absolutely effects how this franchise is run, and the decisions that are made regarding its future. Which maybe inadvertently suggests that the worse your attendance is, and the more transient your fan base is, the better chance the franchise has for success

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) Show me your rigorous analysis that leads you to believe this is a fact. I believe the rigorous analysis was "Those are facts that can't be disputed. . Pretend it doesn't if you like, but that would be wrong."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) Ugh. I know you are a lost cause here, but for the sake of clarity. What fans want to do is up to the fans. They can do whatever they want to do. What I have posted about over and over and over again, is the impact that has on the bottom line of the franchise, as compared to other franchises who don't have as high of a transient fan factor as the White Sox do. I can't help if it you and a couple of others want to turn that around, internalize it, and make it a personal thing. The fan base is the fan base. The numbers are all there in black and white. Those are facts that can't be disputed. That absolutely effects how this franchise is run, and the decisions that are made regarding its future. Pretend it doesn't if you like, but that would be wrong. I won't even bother with the irrelevancy of your fan litmus test. You've continually referred to the fans as whiny and complaining…. Pretend that's not what you're insinuating with your comments… but that would be wrong…I'm sorry... that's disrespectful… and uncalled for… Thanks for the lesson though on the how franchises work, the impact of the bottom line, the fan bases and so forth….awesome Maybe someday you'll learn that the respect you dish out, is the respect you've earned...

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) Here's something for you both to consider: What is your continued engagement with each other providing for yourself? You have a person of authority on your board that apparently thinks it's cool to call out loyal/die hard fans, who express any sort of skepticism toward the current ownership.. then gets incredulous and goes into attack mode when confronted with this blatant and insulting display of disrespect This is a great board.. I learn a ton from many knowledgeable, savvy fans… I don't know southsider2K5 from adam… Possible a face to face meeting could result from a handshake and a sharing of a beer and some Sox chat…who knows? I have White Sox coursing thru my veins… I'm still in possession of my little league glove signed at old Comiskey, by little Nellie Fox from 1960..I still haven't recovered from the Tito Landrum shot in the 10 inning of Game 4 of the ALCS in 83 Nobodies gonna tell me that I can't be critical of the ownership.. I've earned that right… And I don't need anyone to tell me how to be a proper fan..