upnorthsox

Is the agent going to pitch for us or Eddie? Personally I put little stock in anything an agent says. As far as chemistry, he was much revered in the Twins clubhouse and is the same in the M's clubhouse and KW has plenty of knowledge of what kind of player he is along with AJP. IMO chemistry is a non-issue here.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 02:11 PM) Well I already do not like the attitude that Eddie's agent has. He said he has to close plus his arm will need surgery. You don't think attitudes like that wreck clubhouses? I would rather have Ron villone. Where did he say that? Link?

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 01:58 PM) Everybody is looking at everybody, it's the nature of major league baseball two weeks before the trading deadline. I agree with you, I think the Giants thing still has legs, and I also believe KW has Plan B (and maybe even C, D, and E) in place. Yes and alot will depend on how things go this Sunday in Charlotte and the 18th vs Detroit. I would also guess that KW's got the M's GM on speed dial and is calling frequently.

She was at the game last night, they did a couple of closeups.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 05:34 AM) Right. I just won't ever forget when he said the Sox had traded for Ortiz and then it didn't happen. But you're 100 percent right that's his job. I'm not going to bash him for telling rumors he's heard whether they pan out or not. Not to be a Gammons apologist but that was more than just a rumor and KW admitted as much after it fell thru. IMO which ever AL team gets Guardado will win the AL pennant, I hope to god it's not Boston or NY.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 07:45 PM) The Sox could use someone who plays 1st/3rd, such as Alex Cintron, who is out of a job there. They could also use a 1b prospect to possibly succeed Pauly if he leaves after this year. Or it could be someone they can turn around and package in a trade.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 09:06 PM) The Marlins also didn't have the best record in baseball, or a closer who is 17 for 18 in save situations, or three starters with an ERA under 3.30. They're a team that needed some help in order to get to the playoffs in the first place, and they just barely snuck into the playoffs. Then things started breaking their way. I'm not sure what these things have to do with anything unless it's somehow to compare them to the '05 Sox(why not compare them to the '03 Sox who didn't fire their manager, didn't trade for a 5th starter they desperately needed, and didn't trade for Urbina when EVERYONE knew their closer was a joke), but no they didn't have the best record in baseball, that was the Yankees who they beat in the WS. They did have a closer who ended up with 28 saves that yr with Looper. No they didn't have 3 starters with era's below 3.30, they had 2. The other 3 were 3.59, 4.13, and 4.30 for a rotation era of about 3.60. They didn't start out well but after firing their manager they went 16-10 in June and 17-7 in July so they certainly were a hot team at the trade deadline. And of course they had the biggest break any team could ever have, they got to play the scrubs in the league championship. We won't get that break. I'm realizing as I'm typing this that I might sound like I'm a big advocate for getting Schmidt but I'm not, but I'm also not against it if it's for the right deal(if we could get him for what VAFan is proposing I'd be exstatic but I ain't holding my breath). In fact if you look at the WS participants over the last 10 yrs you'll see a noticable lack of deadline trades and if you wanted to point out how big of a bust a deadline trade can be then look at the '03 Giants who went after THE big named pitcher that yr who was also rumored to be hurting, Ponson. Of course, he was actually hurting and sucked down the stretch for them and was bombed by the Marlins in his only playoff start. I want another quality BP arm and for me that's Guardado. I no there's an injury risk there but that also means his price will be alot lower. And if this teams chemistry is going to be shattered by replacing a Viz with a Guardado then the whole thing is a f_ckin mirage anyhow.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 08:26 PM) Willis also went 14-6, but he was 9-1 before the AS Break. He wrapped up the season going 5-5 with a 4.60 ERA after the break, including a horrendous 6.92 ERA in August. In the Postseason he was 4-3 with a 3.55 ERA. So then what you do before the all star break doesn't count? Quick, someone tell Gar and Burly that.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:55 PM) The two guys on the Angels both came out of the pen, meaning they weren't huge changes (although they pitched well). Willis was absolutely horrible in the playoffs, and Cabrera didn't even start several games (I don't even think he played against the Giants). Beckett absolutely kicked ass, but he had been there all along. The point is that none of these guys were important pieces during the regular season, they were all on the roster, and they played major roles in the playoffs. Contreras is basically an older Beckett: great stuff but can't put things together. Who knows, we might call up Baj or Jenks late and they could end up pitching like K-Rod, or Anderson could provide a boost off the bench like Cabrera. Stuff like that happens in the playoffs. No team is absolutely perfect, and you never know what is going to happen. You could have Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson in the rotation and still lose. That's why adding a 4th starting pitcher doesn't have that big an impact. It's a small sample size, so all you need is one great game to make an impact. Also, these guys made a major impact because there were holes on the team that needed to be filled. These guys were given an opportunity to produce largely because of a lack of dependable options. We don't exactly have a lot of places where we need help, certainly fewer than that Angels team or that Marlins team had. Huh?? Cabrera hit .333 vs the scrubs with 3 hr 6 rbi and 9 runs scored, he hit .287 with 3 rbi vs the giants and ended up playing in all 17 of their post season games hitting .265 4 hr 12 rbis. Willis went 14-6 for the Marlins, they don't get to the playoffs without him. Lackey started 18 games going 9-4 for the Angels and came up big for them in the playoffs. FRod was mainly only a factor in the playoffs but then what a factor he was.

Oh, one more thing before I forget. The 2003 Marlins were set to trade their starting 3rd baseman, Mike Lowell, but unfortunately he got hurt right before the deadline and was lost for the season.

QUOTE(whitesoxmurph @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 06:03 PM) The Sox are always going to hit a great deal of homeruns, the Cell is a long ball park. This year we are playing "smarter" ball. Small/Smart ball has to do with a number of things: Good baserunning, speed, good defense, situational hitting, to name a few. I said early in the season that the Lee - Pods deal was good and could very well be the key to a good season and even with Lees HR totals I still think we are a much better team w/o him. Lee was not a good outfielder, every once in a great while he would make a great diving catch of a ball that 85% of the other outfielders in the game would have made a routine play on. He was one of the worst baserunners in the game, I can recall numerous times seeing him getting thrown out at a base that he shouldn't have gone for anyway. He would also never change his swing, never trying to hit to the right side w/ a runner on. I also don't think his second half will compare to his first, teams are going to start pitching around him a bit and he will start chasing. Also remember that money saved from dealing him also landed us AJ, who has handled the staff well and is the kind of player I love. Comiskey is 8th this yr in HR's, amazing how having a decent pitching staff can change the dynamics of a ballpark. QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:06 PM) Going along with this poster's reasons for why it's not always a good idea to make a trade... People at this page seem to love pointing to the Mariners as a team that could have traded to make itself better to win a W.S., and maybe didn't win because they didn't make the trade. On the other hand, let's look at a couple of different examples. In 2002, the Anaheim Angels won the World Series. Guess how many veterans they traded for during the season? The only trade they made was Jorge Fabregas going to Milwaukee for Sal Fasano and Alex Ochoa. Hardly the stuff legends are made of. Now let's imagine this...let's say the Angels decided to get serious about "Winning now" in June of 02, and sent this young guy named Francisco Rodriguez somewhere for a veteran pitcher. Where would the Angels have ended up? Or lets say they traded off Dallas McPherson. Would their team be as set for the future as they are this year? The 2003 Marlins are a very similar story - they made as far as I can tell exactly 1 trade during the year...a week after Todd Hollandsworth went on the DL, they traded Denny Bautista and another pitcher to the Orioles for Jeff Conine, and other than changing managers, that was it for them. No other trades. Now, it's not like they didn't have pieces to work with either - let's imagine that the Marlins had decided that they wanted to "Win now" in 2003, and moved a young guy named Miguel Cabrera, who was platooning in left field basically and hitting under .270, to get some added help? Or lets imagine that they figured they needed a veteran starting pitcher to lead that staff, so they decided to move another young guy named Josh Beckett, a guy who had never pitched more than 107 innings in a season and had never ended up a season even with a winning record. Where would those teams have wound up if they'd made some deals for "Veterans" to plug some of their other holes? A trade can save a team, like the 2004 BoSox, or it can really hurt a team and seriously damage its future, as would have happened if the Marlins or Angels went shopping. The 2003 Marlins also traded Managers which was probably the biggest turning point in their season(the '03 Sox on the other hand kept their manager and finished 2nd, again). The 2002 Angels and 2003 Marlins both got huge contributions down the stretch from rookies that season, the Angels with Lackey and FRod and the Marlins with Willis and Cabrera. Those additions helped offset the need for major trades.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 05:58 PM) Topic: Edgardo Alfonzo when he comes back from injury. Need: Third Base Likely Cost: Unknown. Joe Crede as a stopgap third baseman...positional prospects may include Ryan Sweeney, Brian Anderson. Pitching prospects may include Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Gio Gonzalez. Analysis: Alfonzo is 31 and has a $7.5 million per year contract, signed through 2006. He has hit .306/.370/.403 this year in a pitcher's park in San Francisco. Could hit 2nd with high OBP, likely slots in at 6-8. Plays good third base - 5 errors in 56 games in 2005, 12 errors in 129 games in 2004. The key to the deal would be the amount of money San Francisco would take in this deal. Asking the White Sox to take on the remaining $12 million of Alfonzo's contract through '06 could mean that the Giants would settle for Crede and a A- level prospect such as Casey Rogowski or Sean Tracey. Asking the Giants to pick up a substantial portion of the contract will cost the Sox a grade A prospect such as McCarthy, Gonzalez, Anderson, or Sweeney. LOL!! I hope Sabean isn't waiting by the phone for that deal to come down the pipe.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) You would have taken anything for Everett in the beginning of the season even though we knew that Frank would miss a month or two and we needed a DH? Yes, IMO at the time he was a luxury that we could ill afford and his salary could have been spent better in other places(salaries of Carl + El Duque = Clement) and there were cheaper options for a 2 month DH rental. He also has a history of having 2 bad/mediocre seasons for one good season and this one trended as one of his bad/mediocre ones(so much for trends). However, now he is not just a luxury but a neccessity and if we didn't have Carl Everett we'd be looking to trade for a Carl Everett. I sure am glad I was wrong on this one.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 12:02 PM) Billy Wagner just may have talked his way out of Philly. No way will Philly fans be kind to Wagner after this. He should be gone by the deadline. With his being a FA after this yr, few teams will overpay for him. I'd hate to see Boston come bidding for him. But the sox should be making a call today, if they haven't already ------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted on Fri, Jul. 01, 2005 On Baseball | Wagner says Phils can't win The outspoken closer, asked about playoff prospects, replied: "No chance." By Jim Salisbury Inquirer Columnist NEW YORK - Two games before the midpoint of another season of great expectations and even greater underachievement, the Phillies are just a game over .500 and 71/2 games out of first place in the National League East. As July begins, it's difficult to imagine this sputtering $95 million clunker making the playoffs. Just ask Billy Wagner. "No chance," was his response when asked yesterday whether he thought the Phillies had what it takes to make the postseason. ....... I don't know, it seems like a typical Cubune Sox story, fan the flames of descent and ruin in the headline and 1st paragraph and only after reading the whole thing do you get to the heart of the matter. Do the Mets own the Inquirer or vise versa?

It's funny how things go, in the off-season I'd have taken just about anything for Carl. Now, on July 1st of this season I can't think of anything I'd realistically trade him for.

How can leave off the great Jim Morrison????? The list of great Sox 3rd basemen is endless.

This is a problem we're well aware of for the first 7 innings in a game, it's one I'd like to see resolved before October.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 01:17 AM) Can someone explain why exactly BB would be looking to unload Chavez? He's signed for what, 5 more years? For the entire prime of his career. I keep hearing that the A's are rebuilding as a reason to trade Chavez. Even accepting that premise (which I don't), it doesn't take 6 years to rebuild, especially when you have so much good young pitching. (I'm not saying they've got Mulder and Hudson II, but Harden is REALLY good, and Haren's pitching well. Blanton's recovering from the bad start. That's a nice foundation.) Why on earth would anyone trade one of the best hitting, best fielding players in the major leagues, who's signed at a reasonable price, who won't leave the team for many, many years? He's not unloading him, EOS. Oakland can be right back in the thick of things next yr and they'll do it by building around a guy like Chavez, not trading him. Besides, BB never sells his MVP caliber players even when he knows he's going to lose them(see Giambi, Tejada). All this Uribe for Vizquel talk has to be put back in its original context, that of one component in a larger trade for Schmidt. In that context there's alot of merit to the idea. Pettite went to Houston to play at home, I don't see him changing his mind just to jump on a shooting star. Besides, he was only a few outs away from the WS last yr. I'll believe the Oswalt trade rumors when I see it, I think I'll have plenty of time to wait on that.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 05:40 PM) Watch the replay... Just did, never saw him on anything but grass.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 05:36 PM) Yeah, Im 99% sure that is what happened. Why would you play all the way back on the grass with the winning run on 3rd? 2 outs, position yourself for the out not the runner on 3rd.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 05:01 PM) After reading 9 pages of this post, I still believe the potential trade I posted on page 5 or so is still the best deal for the Sox and one that is realistic for both teams. Sox get: Jason Schmidt and Omar Vizquel. Giants get: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, Brian Anderson (or Sweeney), and their choice of 1 among Takatsu/Vizcaino/Bajenaru and their choice of 1 of Gload/Munoz/Diaz/Borchard. Can any other team beat that deal? Washington might offer Zach Day, but he's never thrown more than 130 innings and he's hurt. And I doubt Washington can add major league ready prospects to the mix because anyone fitting that description has already been called up. Boston, the Yankees, and the O's don't have a better starting pitcher to offer, do they? Branson Arroyo? Miguel Cabrera? If no one can beat the deal, is it sweet enough to get SF to move Schmidt and Vizquel? They don't have to make a trade, after all. I guess I'd be willing to consider other sweeteners as long as Brandon McCarthy is not part of this or any other deal. He proved last night that once he settles down and catches his breath, he's ready to be our 5th starter right now. No walks and 5 Ks. 1 dinger (still his prime weakness). I'd say rest El Duque until September. But the other key to this deal for me is adding Vizquel because replacing Uribe is the best way to improve our offense at this point. If you look at his splits, Vizquel's OBP against righties is a very good .404. Uribe's OBP against righties is .238. Meanwhile, Ozuna get on against left handers at a .455 OBP clip. So a trade for Vizquel would allow Ozzie to play Ozuna on a logical schedule in much the same way that Graffanino used to sub for Valentin. It wouldn't have to be a pure platoon, but it would turn a position that makes outs almost 80% of the time against right handed pitchers to one that makes outs only 60% of the time. At the bottom of the order, that's going to kill a lot fewer rallies and yield a lot more runs. In a tight playoff situation, it could make the difference. The Sox can't get that kind of marginal improvement by trading out Crede for Randa. I'd be ready to make this deal any time, and I think the sooner KW strikes, the better. I'd have no problem with that deal at all, I just don't think SF would take Contreras. But if in the end they would................

Yep it's not like Vizquel hasn't done that to us oh about 50 times over the yrs. He really sucks.

QUOTE(IndplsSoxFan @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 01:18 PM) According the southsidesox.com, the D-backs had some scouts at the game last night looking at someone in our bullpen. They speculate that it would be Vizciano. Has anyone heard anything about a trade? I didn't want to search through that massive trade thread. Here's the clip: Could be a trade in the works with the D'backs. An Arizona scout has attended the last two Sox-Tigers games. The Diamondbacks desperately need relief help. The D'backs got to see a whole lot of bullpen on Wednesday. Luis Vizcaino has to be the guy who the Sox are shopping. He's out of options, and wore out my patience long ago. He didn't even look good in his 2.1 scoreless last night. Maybe the D'Backs were fooled by the results. Cotts and Shingo both have options left, and have pitched very effectively lately, so I don't see them as options. Marte, Politte, and Hermanson are too valuable to be giving up. On top of all that, I can't think of anything on the major league level that Arizona could give us to make the team better. The deal would have to be for prospects. LOL!! I'm really getting a kick out of this, there's been 850+ posts here in the week this has been up and people are ragging about its size yet last night's game thread has over 1000 post and it's only been up barely 24 hrs yet no one b****es about its size, and that doesn't include the "And that's a White Sox Winner" thread which is typically 10 pages worth of people playing with smilie icons. Personally I don't go beyond the first page of threads but in doing a quick check of the last 5 pages I counted 27 threads that had less than 10 posts, I would guess that number would be double that without this thread.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 30, 2005 -> 02:17 PM) Well I hope he brings us a better player. I assume because of his age (I think he is 27 right) that nobody thinks he is a prospect anymore, therefore very little if any upside. Again I am not against this guy, I just find it interesting at how many here think he is great. I am no expert by any means on the minor league system, but you do hear many other names, and you never hear his name brought up anywhere or anytime...except here. As a minor league reliever, you only hear about them if they throw 100 MPH.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 09:29 PM) He was scheduled to make seven million this year, they are paying one million of it this year therefore the sox are paying six million He is scheduled to make eight million is 2006 but the yankees are paying two million of it, therefore only six million for the white sox. Ok my bad, I should double check before discussing contracts instead of going from memory. That said, you are not entirely correct either. Yes he is to make $7 mil this yr and $8 mil next yr but he still had $3 mil remaining on his prorated signing bonus of $6 mil. It was this $3 mil that the Yankees sent us, in fact, they were obligated to send it to us unless we waived that right. So he gets $7 mil + $1.5 mil SB in '05 and $8 mil + $1.5 mil SB in '06. Btw, if we trade Jose between now and April 1st of '06 we also would be obligated to send the remaining signing bonus or $1.5 mil.