Jack Parkman

I honestly don't think it is anyone with the Sox. I'd put it as a source with the Phillies tbh. They'd have every reason to plant something like this, especially before Harper goes to meet with them.

Levine is inferring that the Sox aren't making competitive offers which I refuse to believe. If the Sox are offering 6-7 years and the other teams in the bidding are offering 10+ how does it make sense that the Sox remain involved?? Jerry, Kenny and Rick could not possibly be this stupid. They had to know what they were getting themselves into and the dollars and years it would take to get the job done. Otherwise, lying to the fans like that is a good way to alienate them and become a villain similar to Bill Wirtz and Pulford. The only reason they'd have any reason to lie to the fans like that is if they want to alienate them so nobody cares when they pack up and leave town.

This is the truth 1000% Levine is starting to enter Kaplan territory.

They might not even make the playoffs in 2019. That division is going to be a gauntlet.

I know Epstein is fucking up, it makes me laugh. He's going to handcuff them whether they get Harper or not.

This was the Samardzija/Melky/Robertson offseason. God I hope this isn't the same. There is no way the Sox can come out of this ahead short of landing one other than it being reported that they took significantly less money and years to sign elsewhere, and that isn't even a given.

What people don't realize is that insufferable pessimism is a natural defense mechanism to being optimistic, then being dissappointed repeatedly, like an abused puppy.

You don't, and if they really don't have a seat at the table they're idiots for even suggesting it. If they went into this offseason and Hahn said "The team isn't ready for major additions and we'll add when they're ready" nobody could have argued that and it would make sense. They HAVE to know what they're getting themselves into. Otherwise, why mention it??? It is just moronic and setting themselves up for getting tarred and feathered on their way out of town by the fanbase. Unless they're trying to alienate the fanbase and move the team in 5-10 years, in which they'd be doing a hell of a job accomplishing their goal.

Nothing. A lot of players didn't sign until the end of February last year.

I don't but most everyone else does. I don't think either Harper or Machado signs until after Super Bowl Sunday.

None of what Bruuuuuuce is reporting makes any sense. If what he said was even remotely close to fact, the Sox wouldn't even have a seat at the table, let alone be a finalist for either player's services.

If he hits .320 that is a given. Don't get me wrong, I like Madrigal but his lack of pop concerns me. I thought it was better than what he showed in A ball at the end of the season.

Reading between the lines, yes. It seems that the top bids are much lower in years and dollars than we all expected. Maybe the Sox and Phillies are the only teams willing to go past 5 years. It could be that the Yankees(for Machado) and Dodgers/Cubs(for Harper) are only willing to go 3-5 years because they are almost 100% sure they're going to opt out anyway. They could be hedging their bet against injury.

I know, but I use traditional stats when necessary or relevant to the conversation. Average, XBH and steals are of utmost importance when talking about Madrigal, just as how average is extremely important when talking about Moncada. if Madrigal racks up the XBH and SB, and hits over .300 the WAR will take care of itself, just as how Moncada makes incredibly loud contact so if he gets his hits the WAR will take care of itself. They are two players where traditional stats>SABR stats, because there are one or two traditional stats that both players are completely dependent on if they're going to be >2 WAR players. Long story short, for Moncada if he gets hits, the WAR will take care of itself, and for Madrigal if he gets XBH and hits >.300, the WAR will take care of itself. I expect both players to rack up 25+ SB per season. Madrigal doesn't walk either really. He'll walk more than 10 times, but I wouldn't count on Madrigal walking more than 20-30 times per season.

I don't even think a player like that would even be in the MVP conversation, but whatever. Above average to star, yes. MVP, not even close. Go look at what Altuve did to win MVP, just as a reminder. What I hope Madrigal becomes is a .320 annual hitter, with 30-40 2B 5-10 3B and 5-10 HR with 25-30 SB. In any event, he has to get a LOT of doubles, triples and steals if he's not hitting HRs and not hitting .320. If Madrigal hits .290 annually with a .330 OBP with 25 2B, 5-8 3B and 25 SB, I don't think baseball would value him that much, maybe league average average at best. Power is valued very highly right now. You do realize that the guy I mentioned above is basically Alexei Ramirez without the power and with a few more hits, steals and walks? The only thing Madrigal has going for him is his position in this case.

2000 is what I'm fearful of, but injuries had a lot to do with that. Those pitchers blew out shoulders instead of elbows, and that is what cost them their careers. A pitcher can recover from TJS. Shoulder surgery is usually a death sentence. The thing the Sox have going for them is they have 3 players who once received a 70 FV grade(Moncada/Giolito) 1 who received a 65 grade (Eloy) and 2 that received a 60 ( Kopech and Robert) with both Cease and Madrigal having the potential to get to 60 FV by their MLB debut. They have a ton of high end talent. With both Moncada and Giolito, the talent is still there, but the results aren't even close to their talent yet. (I'll continue to say this about both until I'm blue in the face because I truly believe it....for now)

Not really. Some pitchers don't have ace stuff, and some hitters don't have the power or contact skills to be that good either.

I wasn't really talking about 2005-06, More so 2001-04 and 2010 and 2012. 01-03 is where it really hurts. 2004 both Frank and Maggs got hurt mid season so that is just shit luck.

I wasn't saying they were too risky per se, just there is considerable risk with everyone. When you have amassed the amount of high ceiling talent the Sox have, in a best case scenario out of 10 players, 2 are superstars, 2 are perrennial All Stars, 2 are average major leaguers and the other 4 completely wash out.

No I think almost their entire top 10 as of Jan 2018 was extreme ceiling extreme risk guys. The variance of outcomes with the majority of the Sox prospects other than Eloy and Dunning are wild. Any hitter could be a star 5+WAR player or a bust and any pitcher could be an ace or a complete washout.

Sure they increased spending, but they never spent enough to put them over the top. They never had the "Fuck it, we're going for it" spending spree they needed to put them among the best in the AL. Remember KW with the Dollar/50 Cents comment? C'mon. They didn't spend at a time when spending on FA actually made some sense, and now they're going to do it when it doesn't make nearly as much sense.

Well, if that wasn't what I said, the bolded is what I meant.

Disagree. I think he's boom-bust based on extra base power and lack of walks. Madrigal has to hit 40-50 2B and 8-12 3B along with 8-12 HR, and has to hit .320 annually for it to be a hit.

That isnt my argument. I don't think they lost momentum, I think they squandered their talent and got the bare minimum out of it due to their unwillingness to spend. They could have made 2-4 more playoff appearances and won another world series or two during that span. They were really talented.

No, that wasn't what I was referring to. What I meant was they acquired, for premium talent, players that could be amongst the best in the game or completely flop. I actually applaud them for doing that, but people need to realize there is a 20% chance that they ALL miss. It doesn't necessarily mean they made a bad or wrong trade, it just means they got incredibly unlucky.