Jack Parkman

Where's Mike Cameron when you need him? Can we get a Cameron clone please?

For both Harper and Machado:

Not the same. Giolito is 24, Humber was 29 and that might have been the only dominant game he ever threw.

They were in fact consistently good enough for 2nd place. I thnk what was frustrating to fans was they never decided to spend to put themselves over the top in the division. This is where the idea "Uncle Jerry is cheap" comes from.

Disagree completely. Go look at 1990-2010 for a counter to that argument. It really doesn't matter. The Sox had the 4th highest winning percentage in baseball over that span. The Cubs were largely crap. It didn't matter, as Wrigley was full everyday and Sox park was empty outside of 1993-94 and 2005-06. The truth is that Sox fans don't go to the park unless they think they have a decent shot at Winning the whole damn thing.

I ask everyone who doesn't see ace upside with Giolito to please go watch that game from 8/30 vs Boston again. Please. I don't know if it is possible to find it somewhere but watch that game again and tell me there isn't an ace in there somewhere. When Giolito gets ahead in the count and isn't all over the place he's absolutely unhittable. For all of his struggles this year he still didn't give up more hits than IP. If there is a reason for optimism besides the return of his velocity, that is it. Listen, there isn't any doubt that Gio was beyond awful this year, but it isn't squinting to see the TOR upside there, especially that he found his velocity again. They completely rebuilt his motion, and it is going to take time for him to get the muscle memory down. I think the Sox know this and are willing to be patient, even beyond 2019.

Do you guys remember Daniel Cabrera from the O's? That is how I'd describe Giolito right now....like a young Daniel Cabrera. Gio doesn't throw as hard but mid 90s with wicked movement is still really good. Breaking stuff is excellent. If he ever learns to harness his stuff you can absloutely see an ace there. His command and control (or lack thereof) is what is holding him back at this point, as we found through the course of this season that his diminished stuff was completely related to his mechanics being out of whack, leading to flying open.

Yeah not every team has one. They are rare across baseball, IMO. T50 isn't a blue chipper, top 10-15 is. A blue chip prospect that didn't turn out would be near the top of every all-time prospect bust list. Delmon Young, Maybe Buxton if he doesn't figure it out, those type of guys. With the Sox, the reason to panic is also reason for optimism. How many teams have had 4 players that at at the time of MLB debut were rated 60+ FV? The Sox will have had 3 players make their team debut with a FV of 65. (Giolito, Moncada, Eloy) and Kopech was a 60. That is almost unheard of.

Absolutely, if it works I think that is the best case scenario at this point. The Sox still have a couple top 5 draft picks coming in 2019 and 2020 so it isn't out of the question they hit a HR there and extend the window past that. I'm not expecting anything out of this team until 2021 at the earliest. However, the Royals window slammed shut after 2016 though and 2014 was the first year it really opened.

The injury point is a fair one, but if you're going to offer opt-outs the deal has to be backloaded and if they opt in that means you have a Jason Heyward type albatross for the next 5-7 seasons.

I agree, and I still think Moncada can be a star and Giolito can be anywhere from an ace to a #3 if they put it all together. I haven't closed the book on either guy personally. (admittedly, I still might be the most optimistic on Giolito) I can't deny Giolito's been god awful at the MLB level so far but so was Roy Halladay at the beginning of his career. He didn't figure it out until age 25-26. I'm not saying the Sox don't have incredibly talented players, because they do, but their entire strategy was to grab Boom/Bust guys and so far they've completely struck out.

I honestly don't think either of these guys want a long term deal. They both bet on their talent to get them to this point, so why wouldn't they go for a 5 year deal with opt outs after year 3 and 4 and enter the FA market again at age 30 or 31? At that point they could get a retirement contract that takes them to age 38+ and be set for life. The only thing a long term deal does for them at this young of an age is cost them money. If they believe in themselves, there is zero reason to want a long term deal. The only reason to do that is if they really don't care about baseball either way. To me, wanting a long term deal is a bit of a red flag. They could sign a 5/180-200 deal and be set for life anyway, so why would they cost themselves money? A-Rod's deal was a mistake for a player that young. I think the players and agents have learned from it.

I don't disagree with you, which is why I believe the window will be short and shut quickly if it works. Think Royals instead of Cubs/Astros. It will be like a great comet.

I don't know what your definition of a blue chip prospect is, but to me the guy has to be at least a 60 FV to be a blue chipper. Eloy is the only guy the Sox have that currently has that type of rating.

The only player the Sox have that was ever as highly rated as Giolito and Moncada is Eloy. All three of them were at least rated 65, with some outlets at one point rating Giolito and Moncada as a 70. Giolito and Moncada were rated 65 at the time they were traded here. Kopech was rated a 60 at his highest, while everyone else in the system is a 50/55 at best. After his injury, Kopech has been downgraded to a 55. Even Cease is a 50/55 at the most optimistic outlets on him. God forbid Eloy comes up in mid-April and is hitting.220 or .230 on Memorial Day, as SoxTalk and other diehards would be on suicide watch. The Sale/Eaton trades have come up empty so far. There is a shitload of time for that to change, but as of right now there are exactly zero players you can pencil in to the Sox lineup or rotation for the next half decade, and that is not good.

I know he is, which makes it even more important. If even the Sox fanbase can't see them doing anything anytime soon, then how can you expect a marquee free agent to think of Hahn as anything more than a snake oil salesman?

If you want to know why people don't take the Sox seriously, this might answer it. If this is the industry consensus, then maybe everyone who thought Hahn was the wrong guy for the job after 2016 were correct. Sobering. It's time to wake up and smell the roses: Nobody, not even their own fanbase, thinks the Sox are doing anything special for the foreseeable future.

goddammit.

I don't hate the Cubs so much as I hate their fanbase. They have all of the entitlement and hubris of Yankee fans with a fraction of the success. Therefore I enjoy seeing them epicly fail just so the fans squirm.

lol.

Hey, I'm asking around if anyone here plays chess. I play on chess.com and I was thinking of making a soxtalk chess group. Thanks, Parkman

Everyone knows that is a chess reference, right?

No, not at all. It is a valid criticism. I'm not overly worried or anything just pointing out something.

That's a valid point about both games, but you can blame him for going into prevent with >= 1 full quarter to play.

What are you doing Wegner!?