Jack Parkman

Injuries and non-perfomance. The Sox prospects were hit hard with the injury bug the past two seasons. It isn't reasonable to aim for 2020 anymore. The lost development time is too damaging. Especially players that were supposed to make a quick move to the Bigs, such as Burdi, Burger, Dunning and Hansen. Then you have the upper level struggles of Lopez, Giolito, Moncada and Kopech. The entire rebuild took 2 steps backward this season. 2021 or 2022 is more likely than 2020 at this point. It is what it is. The Sox rebuild is more likely to be closer to the Royals than the Cubs or Astros.

This is the point. Albies, who has been up all year, does not have enough of a sample size for the statistical models to adjust. Until there is enough of a sample size that the models adjust, any performance (or lack thereof) at the MLB level is meaningless. You tell me a team that values performance in the majors that puts one iota of value on performance at the MLB level before the sample size is statistically significant, and I'll show you a GM who needs to be fired yesterday.

Yes. Exactly. Too small of a sample size. If statistical modeling such as ZiPS or PECOTA doesn't have enough information such that it spits out garbage, then we don't either.

IIRC Eloy was absolutely destroying A+. What I'm saying is that is that I put zero weight in a player's first 800 PA or so. It means nothing. From my point of view, Torres might as well be putting up those numbers at AAA.

I was using their prospect ranking before Torres was called up as a basis for that comparison, in which they were generally on par. Despite what the rules say, I consider a player that has recently broken into the bigs a prospect until they've accumulated 1000-1200 PA or 350-400 Innings for a starter. Jimenez and Torres were similarly ranked, so I don't see where the equivalency is false.

I understand that, but there is no track record. Rodon has more of a track record of being a MLB pitcher than Torres has of being an MLB hitter, despite him coming up and setting the world on fire. Gordon Beckham put up similar numbers when he was called up. Any questions Now? Until a player is established, you don't know if their first year is a fluke or not. Wait until Torres has to make adjustments. We'll see. Beckham slashed .270/.347/.460/.808 for the Sox in 2009. Until Torres does it again, it means nothing.

I tend to agree, however it takes two to tango. As long as Boras is representing Rodon, you have to believe his intention is to go to the open market with no exceptions. Strasburg is the only Boras client that was performing well but re-signed with the team that drafted him, and there were extenuating circumstances revolving around that.

If Gleyber Torres is worth more than DeGrom, then Jimenez was worth more than Quintana last season. Was that true? If it is, then that would explain the crappy return for players at this year's TDL. The Sox should thank their lucky stars they were able to get both Jimenez and Cease for Quintana, based on where the market is going. I think teams are overvaluing prospects currently, to the point that it is eventually going to stifle the trade markets. It is going to come to a point where it isn't worth it to trade your players, as if they are QO worthy the pick that you receive will be worth more than anything a team could get for their players.

Strasburg was in his walk year when they agreed to the extension though. Rodon would have to get hurt this year, and the next two years and miss about 4-8 weeks for each injury for the situation to be similar. I agree, but it would take something like 5/100 or 6/120 to get Boras to listen. If Rodon stays healthy through the ASB, makes the ASG, and pitches like an ace I'd consider it. But at that point, I don't think Boras/Rodon will.

Yes, with Strasburg. He had an extensive injury history which is why Boras advised him to take the money and run. He only gives 150-180 innings of quality work each year. I don't know if Boras/Rodon would feel the same way about Rodon's injury history or not.

Well yeah, because I wouldn't sign anyone in the winter 2018 FA class other than Machado, and he's not coming here.

I'm really high on Rodon, and would really like for him to stick around, but I don't see it based on his current trajectory+Boras. If someone is willing to give a Q like deal for Rodon, you take a gulp, bite the bullet and move him. It is a shame, but he really doesn't fit the window.

A lot of things have gone wrong already. I think 2021 is the most reasonable expectation. 2019 is out of the question. 2020 is up in the air. The way I look at it is that in 2019, with good health, they could win 72 to 80 games, in 2020 they could win 78 to 85 games, with potential for a playoff run, and 2021 will be the first season that the Sox are clear contenders.

The value for me is the same as Quintana, as said earlier. I'd need the following: Either your top 10 prospect and one the 75-100 range OR 2 top 50s plus one in the 75-125 range I agree that the Phillies don't match up well because they can't trade Bohm. So, two possible packages from the Braves, Padres and Yankees. They're the only teams that have what it takes to acquire Rodon. Yankees: Torres, A. Abreu + flyer OR Sheffield, Florial, Acevedo+flyer Padres: Tatis Jr, Morejon+Flyer OR Gore, M. Baez and Nix Braves: Wright, Riley, Fried OR Riley, Gohara, Toussaint Those are my deals. If either team wanted, I'd be willing to flip an OF such as Basabe/Adolfo/Gonzalez to the team to gain an additional prospect that the Sox need organizationally.

I explained the origin of the Liriano joke to the board newbies who weren't around the last time the Sox were any good(05-06)

It was a joke. There was a thread in early 2006 that was titled "Where's Our Liriano?" During a time when the Twins were bringing up good players from the minors left and right and the Sox were spending 1st round picks on noted bums such as Lance Broadway and Kyle McCulloch. I was hoping some of the board vets such as ChisoxFn, Tony, and SS2k5 would laugh at it.

Good, i hope the damn thing collapses in the near future. I want to quit hearing about how Wrigley field is soooo great from scrub fans. I will enjoy Lester getting lit up like a cheap Chinese Christmas tree the remainder of the season, and I hope, Now with the Bryant injury that the Cubs completely collapse. Q can still pitch well though. He's on my fantasy team and I still like him. Easy guy to root for.

It may have taken nearly a decade and a half, but maybe, just maybe, we have found our Liriano.

Completely agree. There is zero reason for the Sox org, or anyone in general to give a rat's ass about results from Giolito or Lopez this year. As long as they're both better pitchers at the end of the season than they were at the beginning, who really care? They have the luxury of developing pitchers at the MLB level in a lost season, they should use that ability wisely. It just seems like Giolito and Lopez are going in polar opposite directions. Giolito's starts have become much better and Lopez's have become much worse as the season has gone on. The other reason that I didn't mention Giolito in that comment is that with him, I think the Ks will come with time, and I'm not as sure about that with Lopez.

LMFAO To further my comment on Giolito, I'm going to reserve more judgment until i see how his changeup does now that he's switched from the circle change to the straight change. it might help him get more swinging strikes on his fastball as well.

Mostly because I don't count anything Giolito did this season before around June 15. He's missing more than Lopez the last few weeks. Once he stopped flying open, he became much better. Working through severe delivery issues at the big league level in a lost season is deserving of a mulligan.

It baffles me how the 2018 version of James Shields can miss bats like this, but Reynaldo Lopez can't miss bats to save his life.

I'm sick of the "young people expect instant gratification, and that is an unreasonable expectation" myth. Of course it is reasonable. People, in general, have 70-80 years to walk this planet. That is a short amount of time in reality. The amount of bullshit younger people are willing to put up with is exponentially lower than older people. Maybe it is management who needs to adjust expectations and show employees that they appreciate them by giving them opportunity, more responsibility and higher pay. I think there is going to be a lot of job turnover even in higher paying jobs going forward until this adjustment by management takes place. Maybe younger people have figured out that every day wasted in a dead end job is time you never get back. Once that realization comes, they already have one foot out the door. People spend 40% of of their waking hours as an adult working, so maybe people have learned that it isn't worth wasting time dealing with stressful bullshit anymore. You have to maximize your earning potential, and maximize your time on this earth. Life is short. Maybe management should come to that realization, and maybe other people should too. Nobody has time to put up with bullshit, whether it pays the bills or not. /end rant

Yeah, I think a Shields/Soria/Avilan or Cedeno package would be able to net a T100 prospect Honestly, The Sox best chance of getting a worthwile prospect is a package deal with a team in win now mode like the Mariners, that also only has 1 or 2 top 100 prospects. They'd probably be willing to part with one of those players if the deal meets most of the team needs. For petes sake, please eat Shields' contract if it means you get a better return. The big issue is their T100 guy(Lewis) is an OF and the Sox already have plenty of those.

I think the Dodgers/Cubs situations are more of the exception, rather than the rule. Kershaw has the opt-out after this year, The Dodgers payroll is outrageous and they lost one of the best young SS in the game in Seager for the season. This is pretty much their last chance, IMO, regardless of whether Kershaw opts out or not. He's injured way too much and probably won't be far and away the best starter in baseball anymore. They've spent way too much money to strike out completely on their first championship in 30 years. The Cubs hadn't won a WS in a century and and nearly an additional decade. They had an obvious hole at closer and if they didn't make a move on one, and they blew their best chance to win since actually pulling it off in 1908, Epstein and Hoyer would have been tarred and feathered, and given a one way ticket out of Chicago. No amount of "the window is just opening" would have consoled Cub fans. I think that this is the way it should work, but whatever.