Jack Parkman

If you ask BP he's been 1 though. They have his DRA over 5.50 and his WARP at -0.3. I honestly don't know how this is, but whatever.

Yeah, and one thing I never said earlier is that the majority of those plate appearances and innings that Moncada/Giolito have had they were bouncing back and forth from AAA to MLB and back again. Even though they have those innings/plate appearances, I'm not really sure you can count partial seasons in the mix.

Who's the pro scouting director? I thought that was part of Hostetler's responsibility as well. The reason I lumped him in with Hahn/KW is because regardless of the job he's done, (I agree with you about him being a breath of fresh air) I think that if they bring in new management they should bring in their own people.

My point in my first post in this thread was that if Moncada/Kopech/Giolito still look bad toward the end of 2019, Reinsdorf should clean house in the front office, and bring in new management to re-evaluate everything. Hahn, KW and Hostetler should no longer be making scouting decisions at that point.

This is what I wrote in another thread and I think it belongs here as a PSA to everyone about Giolito.

Fathom, you're waaaay too negative on Giolito. He sucks right now, but if he wasn't a major project he wouldn't have been available for Adam Eaton. If he was the consensus top pitching prospect in baseball that they thought he was a year earlier when he was traded in 2016, I don't think Eaton would have been enough to acquire him from the Nationals. In fact, it probably would have taken Mike Trout to acquire him at that point. He would have been untouchable for all intents and purposes. You have to accept that Giolito is much more risk than reward. He's a lottery ticket. If Coop can get him to 85% of the guy he was in 2015 that is a huge win. Also, you have to understand that the light either will or won't come on for him at the 300-400 IP range. Yes, we all have to be that patient. As long as he's getting his stuff back and making strides with command and control that is all we should ask of him at this point. Don't look at progress on a start by start basis, but a month by month basis.

Agreed on both points. Giolito is nearly 24 he needs to work out whatever his problems are at the MLB level. If he was drafted out of the NCAA I'd feel differently but he signed out of HS, and even though he missed a season with TJS he still had 4 full seasons in the minors.

I hope you're not complaining about Giolito then. Gio absolutely needs to be working with Coop.

Anyone who posts here should know I'm still sky high on Moncada and Giolito, and after thinking about it further, I think the threshold of "they are what they are" is somewhere between 1200-1500 PA and 400-500 IP. Thinking that Moncada/Giolito will still figure it out, while acknowledging that they suck currently are two different and rational thoughts. My whole thing with Kopech is that I think he overthrows and might be better suited being similar to Aroldis Chapman than Verlander. I think there is a 50% chance he's a stud closer, a 30% chance that he's a complete bust and a 20% chance he's an ace. Both Moncada and Giolito are roughly 1/3 of the way to the IP/PA threshold. If they both get 2/3 of the way to the threshold and still suck that is the "get worried" point. The 1/2 point is the really concerned, but not worried quite yet point. I wouldn't get worried about Giolito never figuring it out until he gets to 380 MLB innings, because he's such a project and everyone knew that when he was traded here. I have said this multiple times and it bears repeating, If Giolito wasn't a major project he wouldn't have been available for Adam Eaton. I looked up where both guys are on experience and based on AB+BB Moncada is at 507 MLB PA, and Giolito is at 132 2/3 MLB IP. Both about roughly 1/3 of the maximum threshold, like I said earlier.

Honestly I've got more hope for Giolito and Moncada than I do for Kopech. I've always thought he was more likely to be a reliever. Honestly, lately the plate has been four inches bigger for him vs other hitters, and it is kinda hard to evaluate him as a hitter when he's constantly being screwed by horrible home plate umpires.

I definitely have the patience for a rebuild, I'm still cautiously optimistic, but I really don't think that hitters change much after their first 1500 PA and pitchers don't change much after somewhere between 300-500 MLB innings. What gives me hope about Moncada is that he hasn't gone full Buxton. If he was hitting .170 like Buxton has most of his career, then I'd be on high alert, but at his lowest this year he's at .225 and that isn't horrible for a guy scuffling in his first MLB season.

The three major pieces in the December 2016 trades all look like crap right now, and I'm talking about Moncada/Kopech/Giolito. If none of those three make it, you can push back the rebuild at least until 2023 and you might as well have Hahn/KW/Hostetler/Director of pro scouting shitcanned. Start over and re-evaluate. This is what everyone was concerned about, including myself, that this front office can't identify talent. We all agreed that a rebuild was the correct course of action, but those who didn't trust this front office look like they might be right. How many players, who have major league experience, and didn't make a major swing/delivery overhaul, suddenly figured out how to hit/pitch after 1200 PA or 400 innings? The number is very few. At that point, what you see is what you get.

I've always been not crazy about Kopech, but very high on Moncada. I'm starting to become concerned about both. If Kopech/Moncada/Giolito flame out you can kiss 2020-2021 goodbye. As a matter of fact, if those 3 guys look like average players at best by the ASB 2019, it should cost Hahn/KW/Hostetler(if he's involved with pro scouting too) their jobs.

Games like this one is why sometimes I think of Rodon as left handed Rich Harden. 70 pitches through 3 IP is bad.

You try Moncada at 3b 10/10x before moving him to the OF. Literally, the only actual position prospects the Sox have other than Collins, Madrigal and Sheets are OF. Burger has to prove he's healthy and can play a decent 3B after his injuries before I consider him anything but a future DH. Sox are loaded with 1B/OF/DH hitters, and have virtually no infielders, which is kind of concerning.

My name is Jack Parkman, and I approve this message.

If you're considering moving Anderson and Moncada to the OF and away from the IF, you might as well consider trading them because if they're not MI all of the Sox actual hitting prospects except Madrigal and Collins are OF. are then 10 deep there, and that becomes a Where are they going to play? issue. Give Moncada and Anderson time.

C'mon, what I meant is that is what the trajectory that I see them on is. This is ridiculous and you know it. Of course nobody knows who's going to be on the team, get injured, etc.

Well obviously, but based on what we know now, that's where I'd put them.

I agree for the most part, but it doesn't hurt to let teams know you're willing to listen. That doesn't mean Hahn has to pull the trigger now, unless he gets an offer he can't refuse. I honestly don't think Sale gets traded in the offseason of 2016-17 if they weren't listening at the TDL.

I know we have him for another three years, but what I meant by that is when the contention window opens, he'll be in his walk year. I don't think they'll be ready to take that step until 2021. I'm expecting another top 10-15 pick in 2020. I'd peg them for 74 to 78 wins next year, and then 78 to 84 wins in 2020.

Normally i'd agree, but his free agency is looming, and they'll lose him when they can't afford to(beginning of contention window) and it should be better to maximize value via trade in 2019, after he proves his performance and health.

When 1) is true, so is 2)

Well, it's both. It is a physical issue that leads to a mental issue that puts someone in a downward spiral. This is like a pro golfer doing a swing change. It takes time for the new mechanics to take hold. A pro golfer that has to change his swing knows he's going to miss fairways/greens/cuts and otherwise performs badly for a while. Similarly, a pitcher doing mechanical adjustments knows he's going to walk guys/have trouble with command for a while. it's all a process.

As a pitcher, beating yourself =/= mental issues. Pitching is like golfing, if you're thinking about mechanics you're done. Really hard to think about the hitter when you're thinking about mechanics.