Jack Parkman

So do you guys think that maybe Griffith won't sign? I'm beginning to think that he wants more $$$ to sign than the FO is willing to pay.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) OMG HE BLEW A SAVE, HE MUST BE TRADED. Some of you people have no concept of reality. If you want to trade him because he has a ton of value and you are worried about injury risk sure. But to say that he is a bad pitcher, or bad closer is stupid at best. I am not saying that you should trade him for blowing 1 save, I am saying trade him because odds are that he is going to have more and more nights like tonight in the future. Did you read my post earlier in this thread? Bobby Jenks is going to go the Billy Koch route. Straight high 90s heat disappears; closer gets shelled every time he gets a save opportunity. The ONLY reason that he hasn't been shelled is his nasty uncle charlie and he rarely throws it for a strike. I said it once and I'll say it again, It baffles me that Jenks has had as much success this year as he has because all hitters need to do is sit on his 93 mph straight fastball and he'll be toast. I think that hitters respect Bobby's fastball too much for some reason because it is nowhere near what it used to be. I'd trade Bobby by the deadline mainly because I think he'll be toast next season when the new scouting reports on his fastball are out.

7/2/07-exhibit A on why you trade Jenks.

You trade him because he would get you a s***load of young talent and this team isn't going anywhere for the next 3-5 years so his talent would be wasted here. That is just the main reason. The other reason is that most people would agree that he is an injury waiting to happen and that his fastball has dropped about 8 mph since 2005. Bobby's fastball was at 97-101 mph in 2005 with the slowest reading at 96, but now I've seen it as low as 89 and it is mostly 91-93 with a few pops at 94-95. Bobby's only saving grace is his curveball, but he rarely throws it for strikes. I'm surprised he's done this well so far because all hitters have to do is sit on his straight-as-an-arrow 93 mph fastball and he'd be just as effective as the rest of the bullpen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 07:23 PM) Two of the better fastballs this year for Contreras....pull him!!!! Yeah, I mean holy s*** Jose's fastball just hit 94...twice. If we can showcase him with this stuff to other teams we may just get more in a trade for him. It could be a possibility that he has had an extended dead arm period though, and he is just getting out of it.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 28, 2007 -> 09:32 PM) No more What do you mean? by "no more" are you saying that Javy will always be inconsistent and that I'm full of s*** or are you saying that he has turned the corner?

I really like the way that Javy is pitching right now. You know, he may just be coming around. I really think that he has fixed the problems between his ears. Don't prove me wrong Javy.

The Sox still need to make trades. Work on re-signing Mark, trade Jose, Dye, Iguchi. Bring up Richar, Sweeney, Floyd, and Anderson when he gets healthy. IMO we need to see for sure if Anderson can't cut it at the major league level, and if he can't then we need to adress CF and LF/RF(whichever Sweeney doesn't play) in FA. #1 on my list is NOT TO COUNT ON PODS AND ERSTAD ANYMORE!!! Hopefully Richar can fill our leadoff position from 2B.

So, WTF is going on? What did Hawk say during the game?

What did Hawk say about the Buehrle contract situation? WTF is going on here?

Has anyone actually seen him pitch? I keep hearing that his fastball is back up to 94, but have heard that he has pitched at 96 sometime this year. Having a starting pitcher with that kind of fastball would be great for the Sox. If Gavin has success at the Major league level I wouldn't be opposed to trading Masset if Mark is re-signed. The Sox have to keep Gavin at the major league level next year. If(and this is a big if) Buehrle is re-signed, and Jose won't waive his NTC, then would we keep him in the bullpen? I can't imagine the Sox giving up on him so soon, especially with the way he has been pitching at Charlotte.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) If this is bulls***, someone's got to pay. ESPN radio said exactly that, that it is bulls***. BTW the ESPN insider article said that Mark really wants to stay with the Sox, and that "going to any other team is a distant second choice"

Holy guano batman! OMFG!! I can't believe this. 4/50 is inf***ingcredible!!! I was waiting to get my Buehrle Jersey to see if he re-signed, but now I'm gonna go get one(If this is true) Now Kenny needs to work on an extension for Jon and trade Jose. We have no need to trade our commodities for pitching, we need to trade them for position players, specifically middle infield and outfield. I do think that this signing is the end of Joe Crede as a member of the Sox. I might consider trading Masset if Floyd comes up and does a decent job, because IMO his future is in the rotation. However, I'd still trade Thome for some prospects at the positions, if he'd waive his NTC. We would need a LH power stick if we trade Jim. EDIT: is this bulls***? I've not seen anything anywhere reporting this I'm starting to get kinda skeptical. I might call up the score tonight and ask WTF was with this and go apes*** on someone if it is false

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 10:50 PM) Good news tonight as Gappard and Billingsley were bad....that only makes the demand for Buehrle go up even higher. If LAD were to offer Billingsley for Dye straight up in a couple of weeks if Billingsley keeps sucking would you do it, knowing that he'd been bad? I doubt that they'd even make that offer but it is a hypothetical question.

I'll pass on Nippert. A 26 year old pitcher with no major league experience is a non prospect. If a guy can't make the majors by age 25 then he's a non prospect IMO.

Wow. Just wow. Pelfrey and Gomez/Martinez/Milledge for Contreras? Where do you sign me up? That would be a fleecing by the Sox IMO. I had no idea that Jose had that much trade value. I thought that the best you could get for Jose is a couple of players like Richar.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) Are you saying you condone Kenny trading Mark Buehrle for a couple B prospects!??! QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 10:33 PM) That's how read it. I can't believe this guy is advocating trading Buehrle for a couple of B prospects. STFU Really, no hard feelings. QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) The market for Buehrle as an expensive rental isn't great. If KW makes the best trade he can make here, he'll only be able to get 2 B prospects. So it's not like this is a deal that can save the franchise. Isn't that the point I was trying to make? BTW at WSI some posters are saying that NESN said that the Red Sox are dismissing the Buehrle rumors as "pure fiction" I'm sorry I wasted my time on this stupid rumor

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 10:17 PM) We get it. Thanks. BTW I sure hope Kenny isn't stupid enough to trade Mark for a couple of B prospects. In Gammons' blog on ESPN.com he wrote that Boston isn't willing to part with Lester, Buchholz, or Bowden. If that is the case, then why are we still talking about this trade? Ihat comment, and the fact that we're still talking about this trade scenario, scares me about the package that we'll be getting in return for Mark. IMO if Buchholz AND Bowden aren't included then the deal should be off.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 09:50 PM) Then they don't get Buehrle. That is pretty simple to understand. You just don't take a package of B talent prospects because they are the highest bidder. Also, from what I understand, KW is a straightshooter. He asks what it will take to get a certain player(s) he likes and they go from there. It is not - how about Bucho - click. Genius. I totally agree with you about the trade. How many times do I have to say this? I AM NOT advocating trading Mark for a couple of B prospects. If Kenny trades Mark to Boston, I want nothing short of Ellsbury, Buchholz, and Bowden/Bard. They can throw in Crisp if they want, I'm sure if they give us those 3 Kenny will have no problem taking Crisp or Pena. If we deal with the Braves, I want nothing short of Salty, Andrus/Escobar, and Harrison. (one of their best pitching prospects)If we deal with the Mets, I want nothing short of Pelfrey, Gomez/Milledge/Martinez, and Humber. It's pretty simple. If you want Mark Buehrle, You're going to have to give up 3 of your best prospects, period. I just don't think that a trade like the ones I want will ever happen, though. In fact, My belief(though through pure speculation on my part) is that after last year's offseason, GMs around baseball value their A prospects more than any player on their major league team except their young stars(i.e. players like Verlander, Sizemore, and Miguel Cabrera)

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 09:37 PM) Did you just make that up? It would be a bad trade. No, someone on WSI made that up. And to make this point clear, I am not advocating trading Mark Buehrle for a couple of B prospects. My argument is that I don't think teams are going to offer any more than that for him, and if Kenny counteroffers with a couple of A prospects, the other GM will hang up the phone in the middle of the first guy's name. Example: Epstein: I'm offering Hansen, Crisp, and Lowrie for Buehrle. Kenny:How about Bucho(Epstein hangs up phone)

By the way, I am IN NO WAY,MEANS, SHAPE OR FORM advocating trading Buehrle for a couple of B prospects and Pena/Crisp. I'd call for Kenny's head if he made a trade like that. However, I don't think they're getting any more than that from Boston or any team in a trade, so yes, I'm advocating letting Buehrle walk and taking the picks.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 08:43 PM) Thank you, AJ, for saving us from ourselves. That was a salary dump - the Phillies had been looking to dump him for a long time. The other thing is that there have been plenty of 1 year rentals - and these are at full market price - if you are willing to take a player with 1 year left on the contract, then 1/2 a season should be worth a decent haul (because by that point you know you are in the race). You don't go from market price to B prospect in the first 2 months of the year. Name a 1 year rental player besides Garcia and Jennings this past offseason. Remind me what we got for Garcia again. Oh yeah, a B prospect and a failed top prospect. What did Colorado get for Jennings? Yep, a B prospect, A utility outfielder, and a failed top prospect. The contracts shelled out this offseason such as Zito, Soriano, Meche, and Marquis($7 million/year for a pitcher with a 6.00 ERA ) are what makes it so. There is no history of that kind of trade because it hasn't happened yet. Because of the Zito/Soriano contracts this offseason, ONE A prospect >>>>>> 3 months of Santana/ARod. Boras is saying that ARod could get $30 million/year if he opts out of his contract and goes on the open market. Some dumb GM will probably pay him that much too. There are only 2 teams that can afford to trade an A prospect for a rental player, and you know who they are. Fortunately we are dealing with one of them here. Unfortunately, if no other team will trade their A prospects for Mark, then why should Boston do it? If the owners finally decide that the free agent contracts have gotten out of control, and try to offer less money, then they'll get hit with a collusion lawsuit. The Burnett deal started the trend, and player salaries are only going to go up.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) I have no problem in keeping Mark if we dont get a package thats worth trading him for. Very worse we get draft picks and dont help out any team in the playoff race that I dont like , trading him for B type prospects isnt gonna cut it. I agree, but the problem is that you probably aren't going to get anything more than B prospects for a rental player these days, and even that is generous. The days of trading A prospects for rental players are over. If you were a Yankees fan would you trade Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera for 3.5 months of Mark Buehrle? I don't think so. If we were in first place, would you trade John Danks and Josh Fields for 3.5 months of Carlos Zambrano? I sure wouldn't. The fact that pitchers like Ted Lilly are getting $40 million contracts these days makes it harder to pull off trades for A prospects. An A prospect is worth 10 times more than Johan Santana or ARod for 3.5 months, because even if you trade for the best starting pitcher or position player in baseball, it doesn't guarantee that you will win the World Series. An A prospect has a good chance(but is nowhere near guaranteed)of becoming one of the best players in baseball, and you'll only pay league minimum for him the first 3 years he's in the league. Who'd you rather have, Verlander for $400,000 or Zambrano for $16 million? I thought so.

I have a feeling that we're all going to be irate about the return we get for Buehrle. I don't think we're going to get ANY of Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bowden and Bard. I think the trade will be more like what they're talking about on SOSH than what we're talking about. There are going to be a lot of calls for Kenny's head on a silver platter after this trade, and I think that they are all going to be justified.