wcw2323

This decision goes back to a previous post...Broadway signed for $$$$ big bucks and Haeger was a 24th round draft pick. They have more money invested in Broadway even though you're right "fixed" Haeger has outpitched Broadway since May!

With German coming in, who goes to Charlotte?

I think it should have been Haeger instead of Broadway. he has outpitched Broadway since the All-Star break. Perfect long man from the pen who can eat up innings.

If it was all about the numbers, the pitching staff would look much different than it is today. It's about the business of baseball....investment in a player (bonus), options, How the player was acquired (trade), age, etc. If it were soley about performance, then Wisler and Childers would be on the club. The White Sox have predestination attached to each piece of the puzzle. Some players get a long leash (Floyd, acquired in the trade for Garcia) and others are required to produce immediately or be optioned back to AAA. QUOTE (beck72 @ Aug 5, 2008 -> 07:01 AM) I'd like to see Poreda too. Yet the sox don't seem to like putting their minor league SP's in the pen. I've advocated that in the past. Other playoff teams do when they need help-Joba, Papelbon come to mind. If Poreda is as good as predicted, he could use the on-the-job training being in Chicago. If the sox call up an arm to pitch in the pen before Contreras takes the mound Sat, they should call up either Childers or Rodriguez from Charlotte. Both have been great pitching more than 1 inning at a time--IIRC, Childers has given up 0 runs in his last 10 games, like in 15 innings. Rodriguez just threw 3 innings last night. So he likely wouldn't be ready to give the sox any innings. Of the guys the sox have called up--Richard, Wasserman, Russell, and Carrasco--both Childers and Rodriguez have had better numbers.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Jul 20, 2008 -> 04:55 PM) Loaiza's coming back! I think Ozzie and KW will probably go with someone whose been here already... so we might see Haeger or Broadway. If Broadway wasn't doing bad I would give him the call. The thing about Haeger is he hasn't had much success starting up here in his limited time. We really have no good options right now. Sorry, but Haeger had had only one start, back in May 2006 as a spot replacement for Contreras. All other appearances have been in relief.

Another solid outing for Charlie Haeger...7 IP, 5 hits, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K's. Runs his record to 8-7, and ERA drops again to 4.02. After some rough outings early in the season, he has been the most consistent starter in Charlotte. Last 12 starts his numbeers are;W-L 5-3, ERA 2.62, IP 65.1, Hits 52, ER 19, BB 25, K's 46 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 11, 2008 -> 07:50 PM) Charlotte jumps to an early 1st inning 3-1 lead against Richmond. Getz w/ a 2 run HR, scoring Bourgeois. Haeger pitching. Carolina @ B-Ham, just about to start. Poreda starting. W-S with an early 3-0 lead on Frederick, thanks to Shelby's 3-run HR. Long started. Kanny beating Rome, 2-1 in the 3rd. Socolovich pitching. Bristol @ Greeneville, scoreless in the 3rd. Martinez (1-0 with a 1.47 ERA in 4 starts so far) pitching for Bristol. Great Falls @ Orem, 8:05 CT, no starter announced yet.

You're correct...it's the humidity that provides resistance to make the knuckler flutter. Notice how difficult it is for him in Tucson. When he gets a few starts under his belt in Charlotte, he's fine! At 24 years old, and having 3-4 years of experience under his belt, Haeger will be around for a long time. I'm not sure, but I think he's out of options after 2008..... QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 7, 2008 -> 10:30 AM) I thought that with knucklers, it wasn't a function of temperature, as much as humidity. And wind.

And how about Charlie Haeger??? Last 10 starts his ERA is 2.82. Leads the league in IP's, record is now 7-7. I look for a big second half from the knuckler! QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 6, 2008 -> 11:50 PM) Look at Jason Bourgeois' splits... OMG is he hot. Almost insane. Batted .393 in June; .442 OBP; .590 SLG; 1.032 OPS... this is in 117 at-bats. And to start off June... 9 for 19 (.474). His season BA is now up to .302. Stunning comeback.

Hey, there's another guy in Charlotte besides Broadway who's been putting up some pretty good numbers as of late. Over the last month Haeger has been outstanding. His record is only 4-4, but he should have 6+ wins. The pen has let him down a few times. His ERA over the last 7 starts has been around 3.00 and his BB/K ratio has been very good. He's been the best pitcher in Charlotte recently. frankly, I would take Broadway or haeger vs. EL.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 4, 2008 -> 09:11 PM) Looks like DeWayne Wise cleared waivers. He's in the lineup for Charlotte tonight. And something else... I'm beginning to believe that Charlie Haeger should only pitch after the weather warms up. Seems like as soon it does, his knuckleball starts working. Until then, he's worthless. Afterwards, he looks like a real pitcher. Charlie has been the best pitcher in Charlotte for the past month, but you never hear or read about him. In his last 7 starts he has been outstanding. I hope he gets traded at the deadline to a team that will utilize his talents. He deserves the same shot provided to Floyd. Charlie is a starter, but everytime he has been brought up, he's been used out of the pen. The Sox need to take a long look at this kid. He has one option remaining and can be a free agent after 2008. He out pitched Buchholz last night and over the last few starts has done a great job regarding his BB/K ratio.

QUOTE(ScottyDo @ Mar 30, 2008 -> 12:51 PM) If Masset isn't on the roster, we have NO ONE in the bullpen capable of throwing multiple innings. That is not okay no matter how many crazy message board scenarios we come up with to fix that issue using Ehren. Wasserman is better, but Masset is the only right choice. Now does it suck that we don't have a GOOD long reliever? Sure. But Wasserman, who doesn't fit that role, is not a realistic option. I suppose we could have Haeger up again but we already saw how that worked out. Broadway, maybe a little better, but I think it's better if we just leave him a starter and let him get his innings in in AAA. So yeah, no option other than Masset. Sorry. I suppose we could have Haeger up again but we already saw how that worked out. Broadway, maybe a little better, but I think it's better if we just leave him a starter and let him get his innings in in AAA. Check out the career stats comparing Haeger to Masset...Haeger has a 4.85 ERA vs. Masset's 6.56. Haeger had an ERA of 2.25 the second half of 2007 in Charlotte. This isn't about the best fit for the role. It's about options...all business!

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) I do remember the news Haeger's promotion last year originated from a low post count member with ties to Charlie several hours before it was announced. I buy it. Bingo...we have a winner!

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:42 PM) well, I've never talked or even seen either of them before (no offense) and just a post saying Charlie Haeger is coming doesn't really do much for me. I'm not calling them liers, but would like to see a source for something like this. Did you mean (spell check) liars? QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:42 PM) Wcw2323 is an outstanding poster with alot of credability so I believe him post counts (which is severely overrated) or not. Are you crazy or just drinking the Kool-Aid?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:39 PM) I'm not sure why two different people, including one I've talked to before, would come on here and make this up, so I believe them. I am Spartacus

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) where are you guys getting the info on Charlie getting called up? Heard it from a friend of his.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) I am. He's on his way to Baltimore as we speak.....Good luck Charlie, welcome to the show!

Looks like Haeger's getting his knuckler under control. He threw another scoreless inning with a K today. That's three straight against the Rockies. The team rumored to be interested in him..... QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 28, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) Whether it's fair or not, the reality is that baseball teams don't prize a knuckleball pitcher anywhere near as highly as they prize a guy with a great fastball even if the knuckleball pitcher puts up better numbers. What do you think would happen if you tried to offer up Charlie Haeger for Philip Hughes? You'd be laughed out of the room. That's just the reality. But, the fact is, that is why I don't want to trade him. He went 28-11 in teh last 2 years. He eats innings. He put up an ERA of 3 last year. He's very very cheap. And most importantly, I think it would be impossible to get equal value for a performer of his caliber entirely because of the pitch he mainly features. He may have very little left to prove in AAA, you are correct. But Personally, I don't expect him to be stuck there for all that long. He'll be in the big leagues soon enough. He doesn't "Deserve" anything yet, any more than any minor leaguer deserves to be in the rotation when someone outpitches them. But rest assured, he'll get his shot soon.

I would love to see this kid get a shot with another team. I think the Sox would be making a huge mistake if they traded him though! QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 29, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) Absolutely

Good for Haeger today...I think he threw 2 or 3 scoreless innings against the Rockies on Sunday. Do you think they may be showcasing him? QUOTE(The Critic @ Mar 29, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Enjoying the meaningless spring.

That doesn't make any sense. What difference does it make if he throws 96 or 68...as long as he wins? I'll guarantee you that he will have a longer career than any flame thrower. Charlie eats up innings, and has the best record in the minors the last two years. You are under valuing based on your perception. The reality is that he was 14-6 with an ERA around 3.00 last year, started the AAA All-Star game, and has nothing more to prove in AAA. He has a high ceiling since he's only 23. Charlie Hough said he's the best knuckler since Wakefield. The only difference is that he's much younger than when Wake broke into the bigs. Charlie deserves the chance to be a part of a major club based on his performance the past two years...period. If the Sox aren't high on him, then move him to a club that appreciates what he has to offer. The response of "because people don't know how to evaluate a knuckler" is crazy. How about evaluating won-loss records for the last two years (28-11) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 28, 2007 -> 04:23 PM) I really disagree with this. Charlie is a knuckleballer. Consequently, his value is a lot lower than what it would be if he put up an ERA of 3 in AAA last year but was throwing 96. Because people don't know how to evaluate knuckleballers, their value is always going to be depressed until they prove themselves against big leaguers. He has plenty of room for his value to go up, by either putting togehter another solid season, cutting down on the walks, or getting some wins at the big leagle level.

You're absolutely right, the Sox aren't obligated to do anything with him and can let him continue at the AAA level. But, if the Sox aren't high on him, for whatever reason, then they should move him to fill a hole in the back up catchers role. Charlie's value is at it's highest right now, who knows how he will do this year. He may put up terrific numbers again (for the third straight year), or he may become an average performer. I do know this. If he was a traditional fastball, curve, slider, change-up pitcher he would be in Chicago, not AAA. He has the best record in minor league baseball the last two years and there are teams who would love to have him in their rotation, so why not move him now to get some value in return? QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 28, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) There were some minor league experts that were claiming Haeger be a great player for some team to trade for this offseason, as the Sox weren't that high on him, but he's very projectable as a knuckler.

There's a story in the Tribune regarding the Rockies GM being interested in Charlie. Apparently they have offered up a back up catcher in exchange. That would be great for Charlie and Kenny. Since CO is a National League team, Charlie couldn't come back to haunt him! Charlie could step into their rotation. QUOTE(wcw2323 @ Mar 27, 2007 -> 10:26 AM) You are correct, and he most likely never will in the AZ dry conditions. So to be realistic and fair, they need to judge him on his historical performances or send him to a team that has a FL based spring training location!!!!

You are correct, and he most likely never will in the AZ dry conditions. So to be realistic and fair, they need to judge him on his historical performances or send him to a team that has a FL based spring training location!!!! QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2007 -> 09:51 AM) How are they being unfair exactly? The Sox aren't an employment agency, they are a major league baeball club. If they don't feel Chuck is one of their best 11 pitchers, then they need to send him down to Charlotte. Its not about proving anything in the minors, its about proving that you are better than any of the other pitchers on the major league roster, and Chuck did not have a good enough spring to prove that.

If he's not in their long term plans, then they should either release him or trade him. Let the kid go to a team that will appreciate having a pitcher with the best record in minor league baseball the past two years. If he was a traditional pitcher, he would be on the club! As long as the Sox are located in AZ for spring training, he will have a very difficult time making the club if they only base their decision on his spring stats. I think the Sox are being very unfair to Haeger. He has nothing else to prove in AAA! QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 26, 2007 -> 10:04 PM) those are his major league numbers, so they're a little misleading, but his UERA in Charlotte was still about 70 points higher than his ERA. In comparison, Gavin Floyd's was 23 points higher (4.23 opposed to 4.46), while John Danks' was almost a full run higher (ERA of 4.24 in the minors, UERA of 5.21). It really depends, but that type of trend does occur quite a bit with other knucklers, you are right. Tim Wakefield - 4.30 ERA 4.92 UERA Steve Sparks - 4.88 ERA 5.46 UERA Tom Candiotti - 3.73 ERA 4.25 UERA Wilbur Wood - 3.24 ERA 3.79 UERA Which is just part of the reason I really don't like Haeger all that much. If he had value, I think he would have been gone by now, because they are just far too inconsistent to be counted on, even as a number 5 starter. It's possible he'll be a very durable and versatile pitcher over his career, but I just don't think it's with the Sox.

I personally don't think KW is enamored with Charlie. Cooper and Ozzie seem to say positive things about him, but KW is not convinced. It's too bad...here's a kid that has nothing to prove and who has led his team in wins the last two years. He was a AA All-Star, AAA All-Star, and was very effective last September. Charlie is a victim of circumstances. I'll bet that every guy KW traded for this off season ends up on the 25 man roster. Thus far, Danks, (who deserves the spot), Masset, Sisco, and Aardsma look like they will be with the team. I think it's an ego/saving face thing with Kenny. The White Sox coaching staff understood that the environment in AZ was not conducive to the knuckler. Charlie should have been graded on his successes last year vs. how he performed this spring. Hopefully, he sees the big picture and heads to Charlotte with something to prove. My hope is that he is brought back to the show and proves himself in either a spot starter role or long relief.