[Do or Die for KW in 2012?]

When it's all said and done, people are going to say that KW was, at one point, a very good GM and that he got caught up in making splashes and "flying under the radar" so much that it overtook his baseball acumen and ruined his ability to be a GM.

 

Rios and Peavy were definitely risks, but I don't have much of a problem with his other major moves. Who could've predicted that Adam Dunn would post a .569 OPS this year? Most of his other acquisitions (Garcia, Dye, Contreras, AJ, Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Thome) worked out really well. If anything, his aggressiveness was a plus.

 

The one very legit criticism is the farm system under Kenny. THAT'S what's going to harm his legacy.

 

[Robin Ventura Named White Sox Manager]

Dave Martinez will command a large salary.

 

No he won't. Dude has zippo managerial experience and wasn't anything close to a marquee player. He'll have close to zero leverage in negotiations and will take what he can get.

 

[Robin Ventura Named White Sox Manager]

If u are gonna hire Robin ... why didn't they just hire Coop?

 

Because they'd have to take a massive hit at pitching coach. Coop can't occupy the positions of manager and pitching coach simultaneously.

 

[Offseason Plans]

And watch your season ticket base go back to 1970 levels.

 

Late 1990s levels is probably more like it.

 

At this point, the Sox need to worry more about rebuilding than pandering to fans. Sox fans don't show up to watch mediocre teams overspend to play .500 ball. Attendance barely hit 2 million this year and I suspect that they'll struggle to draw 1.8 million next year.

 

If I'm Kenny, I try to trade Quentin's rights this winter, try to re-sign Buehrle to a short-term deal and see how things go next spring. If they're mired in third place, I move Danks and Floyd before the deadline. They need to get *something* in return for these guys.

 

[Let the Rebuild Begin]

I still hold it is really unlikely we'll get anything MLB-ready back for Danks/Floyd/Quentin...or if we do, it won't be the kind of player that you want to give a starting job to, it'll be a recovery project or someone like Lillibridge coming off a down year.

 

At this point, I think that Kenny and JR are more interested in dumping salary than nabbing a solid prospect.

 

[White Sox Manager Search Thread]

No fricking way Kenny goes the way of hiring a guy who could be a problem personality wise.

 

Especially since the guy who just left was exactly that.

 

[White Sox Manager Search Thread]

Id say that it wouldn't be a bad job for a couple of reasons,

1. It's a team with great history and is in a big market

2. The team isn't afraid to spend some money to try to compete (Im not saying that you have to spend money to compete but its nice that the owner is willing to open up the pocket book as opposed to the A's, Marlins, et al..)

3. If you become one of Jerry's "guys" he is loyal to the ends of the earth, it is really nice to know that the boss has your back at all times. For those of you who have worked for a s***ty boss who'll throw you under the bus at any moment you can understand why this is a really nice thing.

 

I'm not saying that the Sox are a great landing spot or anything but just playing devil's advocate, those are the reasons that I personally would want to coach the chi sox

 

Agreed with your last point, but I don't foresee the Sox spending more money any time soon. It's much more likely that they'll be dumping salary over the next 9 months.

 

[White Sox Manager Search Thread]

At LaRussa's age, he's not sitting out a year.

 

He couldn't be a TV analyst for FOX or TBS for a season?

 

Not to mention, but he probably has only three destinations left: remaining w/St. Louis, coming to the Sox, or retiring. Do you hear his name mentioned in connection with any other non-Cardinals manager-related job besides the vacancy at 35th and Shields?

 

So, because the media is only speculating about those three options, those are the only three options available to him?

 

And this with a guy whose running on one-year contracts these days! Meanwhile, there are tweets galore out there as we speak at least talking about the Sox' supposed interest in LaRussa, so it's certainly not too far-fetched to suggest it's in the realm of possibility. Probability, perhaps not. Possibility? Yes.

 

Why would LaRussa even want to leave St. Louis for the Sox? How would managing a team that's heading into rebuilding mode (or at least a serious retooling mode) help bolster LaRussa's legacy? If he's that close to retirement, why would he want to manage a team that probably isn't going to be a contender for the next couple of years? And given that the Sox just gave Coop a new deal recently, LaRussa would have to dump Dave Duncan (or the Sox would have to let Coop go). I don't see either of those scenarios playing out.

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but I just don't see how coming back to the South Side would benefit LaRussa. Despite all of the media and Twitter speculation, it just don't seem like a logical fit to me.

 

[White Sox Manager Search Thread]

Well, I wasn't really talking about Francona, but as it relates to him, if he's out of a job, what are his other options?

 

If I'm Francona or LaRussa and the Sox are my only option, I'd probably sit out a year and wait for something better to come along. It's not like either will struggle to pay the bills in the meantime.

 

Usually it's a team on the skids that is looking for a new manager, not a championship caliber team. I don't have at my disposal here the list of managerial vacancies at the moment that look any better than the Sox', but to your point, if there is one, then Tito might give that one much greater consideration.

 

Not always. The Red Sox were a championship-caliber team when they fired Grady Little and hired Francona.

 

But even if Francona only had struggling franchises to choose from, the Cubs would probably make a lot more sense. They still haven't won a World Series in forever and they have a tremendous fan base. Francona would be a hero if he won a championship with the Cubs. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs hired Epstein and he brought Francona in.

 

I just don't see why somebody like Francona or LaRussa would be attracted to the Sox. They're going to have to shed payroll soon, their farm system isn't that impressive right now, and their fan base has never been that great. They're also looking to shed salary, so paying one of those guys the top dollar that they'd command wouldn't make any sense for Reinsdorf either. It's just a bad fit.

 

 

[White Sox Manager Search Thread]

I have a hard time seeing LaRussa coming to Chicago w/o Dave Duncan. They seem to be a package deal.

 

This is true. I don't think that LaRussa was ever a serious candidate anyway.

 

[White Sox Manager Search Thread]

The 2011 White Sox were characterized by an extraordinary amount of underachievement. Tony LaRussa, like him or not, is but a handful of wins away from being the second winningest manager in the history of the game. That means he has overseen a whole lot of achieving throughout his managerial career.

 

Now how much of that achieving can be directly attributed to him and his managerial style can obviously be debated, but his record of players coming through for him stands on its own. And I can't help but wonder, what with our more noteable underachievers seemingly tethered to this team for the next few years, if it makes more sense to bring in a guy like LaRussa with his record of achievement to try our best to get something out of these guys. Or are we really comfortable just handing this mess over to someone with no managerial experience whatsoever and hoping for the best.

 

This is not meant to be a slam on Alomar or Martinez, who both profile as effective future managers in this game. I'm just coming at this with what might be best for our particular roster of players. (And as for LaRussa purportedly being an ass, I could care less. I wouldn't have to deal with him!)

 

Why would an established manager with rings (LaRussa, Francona) want to manage a team that is almost certainly going to shed a ton of payroll over the next year and go through a rebuilding process? I don't see how managing the Sox would appeal to either of these guys.

 

My guess is that JR and KW will hire somebody with little or no managerial experience, who won't command a ton of money, looking for their first break. Like Alomar or Martinez.

 

[attendance]

The fact of the matter is that Sox ticket prices (and really, all ticket prices in baseball) have gone up so severely with respect to inflation over the past 20 years. I have an Lower Box opening day ticket from 1991; face value was just $13.00. Even if we take into account inflation, that ticket would be worth $22.37 in today's prices. Nowadays, you can't get a lower box seat for less than $40-$50, and in many cases it's more like $60-$80. It is absolutely absurd for baseball to continue to charge these rates and not expect families to not be able to attend in an economy like this.

 

I get that salaries spiraled out of control similarly, but the fans are the ones paying for all this. It is absolutely unreasonable to believe $200-$500 is a reasonable amount of money for any middle class family to spend on an afternoon's worth of entertainment.

 

When the Sox cut payroll this winter, they'd better lower the prices.

 

I remember when club section seats were $22 back in the late '90s. It was still worth a trip to the ballpark to watch bad baseball.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

Let's face it, if the White Sox manage to win again today, there just isn't any way that Kenny can trade Quentin without alienating the fan base. Especially if we happen to take over 2nd place in doing so.

 

Meanwhile, the Braves (and Phillies last night) are basically daring the seller's to wait until the offseason to deal these guys if you want our #1 or #2 prospect for them.

 

I can see Thornton or Ohman getting dealt for a prospect if the offer is solid, but I don't see Quentin getting moved unless we lose tonight and then get down big early tomorrow.

 

I don't see anybody wanting to give up anything of value for Ohman. Thornton's contract and inability to get hitters out this year will probably keep his trade value low as well.

 

Agreed in general that Kenny is probably standing pat at this point.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

Neither Pierre or Carlos are going to play CF, thats a tragedy waiting to happen.

 

Carlos, yes. Pierre would be doable in CF once a week.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

Too bad that Ozzie's irrationally married to the idea of Pierre leading off. Quentin in LF, Viciedo in RF, and a platoon of Pierre and Rios in CF is probably the best option at this point.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

I'd rather have him in the OF where he's played all season and just suck it up and put Pierre in center.

 

With Morel being an automatic out, I would've instructed Viciedo to get reps at 3B a month ago.

 

Sadly, I agree that Pierre in CF is a legit option at this point. Uggh...

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

If Sox trade Quentin, they are demanding players back who can help right now since they're only 2 back in loss column.

 

I'm not sure how much veteran talent Quentin is worth. He's more likely worth a prospect or two in the off-season.

 

Regarding all the talk of replacing Quentin with Viciedo in this thread, I'm still wondering why Viciedo isn't on the active roster right now. I realize that he's not that good defensively at 3B but, with this team struggling like mad to score runs, it seems to me that his bat in the lineup would be worth the defensive downgrade. And they'd still have the option of using Vizquel as a defensive replacement late in games.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

This team as constructed is just not good.

 

Outside of Pierre leading off, it's not constructed that badly at all. It's simply a case of key players not performing. Put 2010 Dunn and 2010 Rios into that lineup and we're arguably first place team right now.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

We were one of the worst teams in baseball in July offensively.

 

And if Dunn and Rios begin to hit anywhere near the career averages down the stretch, we'll be a respectable offense again.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

I didn't say forfeit the series were it to come to fruition. I'm just giving my opinion on what I think would happen without letting my White Sox fandom influence me.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you then.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

Peavy? And let's not get crazy here. We're not talking Halladay, Hamels, Lee and Oswalt. Or the video game that was the Giants rotation last year. I think we have a solid rotation. But there's no stopper(s) in this rotation.

 

You don't need a "stopper" to win a championship. You simply need effective pitching.

 

And, yes, I believe that Peavy can be an effective #4 in a 7-game series.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

Well this isn't college football. I mean, as long as games are played, yes, technically anything can happen. By my estimation, the probability of this White Sox team beating this Red Sox team in October is less than 10%. And I think I'm being generous.

 

Sports history is full of upsets where the chances were much lower.

 

If you don't try, there's no point in playing the game. When given the choice between manning up and trying and putting my tail between my legs in going home, I tend to favor trying.

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

The Red Sox are a very good team, but it's ridiculous to say that the White Sox don't have any chance to beat them in a 5-game series.

 

With a rotation of Danks, Buehrle, Floyd, and Peavy, the Sox have a legit chance against anybody.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

Not if you believe one team is clearly superior to the other. I don't believe any central team has a chance against Boston or NY. Yes, anything can happen. But going in, I don't think we'd have a shot.

 

If you don't try, there's no point in playing the game.

 

[Quentin sought after by BOS]

I don't care about any year prior to this year. This is by far the best Red Sox team since '07. Until this team blows right past .500 and consistently scores at a 4.5-5.0 run a game clip, there's no business at even insinuating that they could run with Boston.

 

If Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester continue to have injury problems, they won't be nearly as bulletproof.