WCSox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 11:26 AM) 3) We have more money to play around with this year and next than previously thought 4) KW is planning on trading someone completely unexpected to create salary space (Danks/Floyd/Buehrle) 5) Our chances to win the next two seasons are better with Jackson These are all highly unlikely scenarios right now. These are more likely.

This trade suggests two things: (1) The Sox weren't nearly as high on Hudson as they'd led us to believe (or believe that his mechanics make him injury-prone). (2) Kenny subscribes to the school of thought that making a deal at the deadline (even if it doesn't really help the team much) has a positive psychological impact on the team. (I imagine that the Griffey trade of two years ago would fall into this category as well.)

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 11:08 AM) I would give the entire farm system for Dunn if we don't have to include Jackson. I think most would. Speak for yourself. No way that I give up both Flowers and Viciedo for Dunn.

I don't see Kenny flipping Jackson for another bat. That'd create a massive hole in the #5 spot and the Sox would still be relying on a junkball-throwing reclamation project as their #4. I appreciate what Freddy's done for us this year, but I'm not banking on him to continue putting up the numbers that he has.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 10:35 AM) People can say that Hudson is overrated all they want but the point is that this is an extreme over pay no matter how the f*** you look at it and there's absolutely no denying that. This trade blows. Edwin Jackson has career a 1.51 WHIP in over 800 IP. I'd say that he's the overrated one. And even if Hudson is overrated, Jackson won't be filling our need for a cheap back-of-the-rotation pitcher for the next 3+ years.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 10:35 AM) People can say that Hudson is overrated all they want but the point is that this is an extreme over pay no matter how the f*** you look at it and there's absolutely no denying that. This trade blows. Edwin Jackson has career a 1.51 WHIP in over 800 IP. I'd say that he's the overrated one. And even if Hudson is overrated, Jackson won't be filling our need for a cheap back-of-the-rotation pitcher for the next 3+ years.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 10:35 AM) People can say that Hudson is overrated all they want but the point is that this is an extreme over pay no matter how the f*** you look at it and there's absolutely no denying that. This trade blows. Edwin Jackson has career a 1.51 WHIP in over 800 IP. I'd say that he's the overrated one. And even if Hudson is overrated, Jackson won't be filling our need for a cheap back-of-the-rotation pitcher for the next 3+ years.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 10:12 AM) Problem is Jackson's not a clear upgrade. If it was Oswalt, then I'd agree with you. Agreed. If you're going to deal a high-tier pitching prospect, you need to get somebody like Oswalt or Lee in return. Jackson may be a slight upgrade over Hudson for this year, but not enough to be the type of impact player that would help a team win a pennant. And the Sox lose several years of Hudson as a #3 or #4 for dirt-cheap. If Kenny doesn't flip Jackson for a better player, this will go down as one of his worst trades.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 06:52 AM) The more I think about this, I'm calling bulls*** that he's staying with the Sox. They want Dunn, and this is part of it. An NL pitcher with a 5.16 ERA who can't throw strikes? This is not a Kenny move for a pennant race. If they got LaRoche in the deal as well, it would make sense (for this year). Otherwise, I agree that it's either misdirection or part of another move.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 06:28 AM) I completely agree, but if we are talking upside, the still young (26 year old) Jackson has a higher upside than Hudson if you ask me Jackson's pitched a lot of innings in the bigs and has been overwhelmingly mediocre/bad. He's entering the prime of his career and has only one season under his belt that reflects that potential. Upside is nice and all, but Jackson's been overdue for results for a while. I'd rather have Ted Lilly than Jackson.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:14 AM) With Huddy being involved AZ almost had to eat salary, they did with Haren. Prob not half, although it'd be nice. Maybe 2 mil this year and next. An Laroche is included. Aren't the D-backs in serious financial trouble? If so, they won't be eating much salary.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:07 AM) If Hudson is involved might mean LaRoche could be coming as well. That would make sense, and the Sox would be eating a limited amount of money.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:06 AM) Lateral move? Jackson has a ton of MLB experience and had good success in the AL. Huh? Outside of last season, Jackson has been incredibly mediocre in both the AL and NL. I see little evidence that Jackson would pitch better than Hudson this year. Maybe Coop would be able to help him in the long-run, but I wouldn't count on him to suddenly morph back into 2009 form this season.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:02 AM) Exactly. But looking ahead to 2011, wow. Peavy (hopefully healthy), Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Buehrle with Hudson/Sale waiting in the wings. Me likes. Jackson replacing Buehrle after 2011 also makes sense in the long-run. Especially with Danks (apparently) wanting to test the FA market when he's eligible.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 11:57 PM) I'm cool with this as long as Hudson is not involved. Jackson-for-Hudson seems like a lateral move to me. I don't see the point, especially with Hudson being a lot cheaper for the next few years.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 11:48 PM) I dunno, they seemed to be very high on him from everything that has been in the papers and from the little the mentioned him in The Club. They moved him through the minors very quickly. Keep in mind that what officially comes out of the Sox front office is intended to serve the interests of the organization, and not necessarily to reflect reality. They very well may have been talking up Hudson to increase his trade value. And if they're willing to trade him for a veteran in the middle of a really bad year and with a prior history of bad years, you have to wonder what they really think of Hudson.

Not sure what to think of this, but if the Sox DO move Hudson, it's going to have to be for a SP with Peavy out. I'm also getting the impression that the Sox aren't as high on Hudson as they've led us to believe. Especially considering that Jackson is having a pretty crappy year and has had his share of mediocre/poor seasons over the course of his career.

Perhaps lost in the stellar play of Alexei and Vizquel this evening was PK doing a great job of picking some tough throws out of the dirt. Range is often overrated at 1B.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 11:43 AM) The 2006 Sox collapse was caused by the collapse of the offense, as well as the general suckitude of our pitching staff (particularly our bullpen). But I tend to side with Balta in the sense that I feel it's fair to say Mack's defense in CF lost that team several games. And considering we finished 5 out of the playoffs IIRC, that's a big thing. Mack actually had a good offensive year that season too, and it's not his fault Ozzie kept putting him out there even though he sucked at playing CF, so I always felt kind of bad for him though. The lack of pitching and offense down the stretch hurt that team a lot more than Mackowiak in CF.

In other words: "We just lost Peavy for the year, and there's no way in hell that I'm trading Hudson now."

First game I've been able to watch in a while. Hudson sure looked good. That play by Alexei was downright Vizquel-like.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 19, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) I was exaggerating a little. But between the major role he played in the premature break-up of a 6-time champion all the way through his final year in 2003, you're going to struggle to find a more inept and just overall pathetic display of general managing in the last 25 years or so. Yeah, the last half of his tenure in Chicago was awful. All he had to do was shut up and stay out of the way, but he just couldn't help himself. I think that Hawk may be the worst GM I've ever seen, as he didn't even show up for work half of the time. That said, this is a discussion for a different thread.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 19, 2010 -> 12:01 PM) or consider putting him in the 6 slot instead of Kotsay... This makes more sense. Putting a hitter in the #1 or #2 spot often changes their approach at the plate (taking/fouling off more pitches), and Beckham doesn't need that right now.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 18, 2010 -> 02:49 PM) Jerry Krause, the worst GM of the modern era Krause drafted Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant, and brought Cartwright, Rodman, and Phil Jackson into the fold. He was an egomaniac douche who couldn't get along with anyone, but there's no way that the MJ wins six rings without that supporting cast. Agreed with your overall point about loyalty to friends going WAY too far on Jerry Reinsdorf teams, though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2010 -> 04:50 PM) KW will find a way to do something. I just don't think he deals anyone of our top 4 guys. If he's only willing to part ways with our 5th or 6th best prospect, that "something" is more likely to be a mediocre veteran than an impact bat veteran. Unlike last season, Kenny will likely not have the luxury of taking on a massive contract to offset the fact that he's giving up middle-tier prospects.