WCSox

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 3, 2010 -> 10:13 AM) I don't think this has happened very often since NTC's have come into vogue. A player will usually at least toe the line and keep his mouth shut and allow the team to use as many teams as possible to maximize leverage. Instead of Mark outright rejecting the offers, Kenny tells the Cardinals GM "Look, Mark would really like to come there, but the Braves and Mets are offering this..." It usually seems to work itself out. Except that Kenny doesn't have to call the Cardinals to make Mark's desire to play for them evident. Mark's been doing that through the press for years. The Cardinals know that Mark would push for them pretty hard, and thus have less incentive to match offers from theoretical other teams.

QUOTE (hawksox13 @ Jun 3, 2010 -> 07:32 AM) I disagree. I think there will be a contending NL team that would give a nice return for Mark Buehrle. It would be nice if he started to pitch like the Mark Buehrle that we all know and love, but I think he would bring in a nice return. The fact that he isn't just a rental increases his value greatly. Maybe, but his limited NTC and 10/5 rights (next year?) could severely limit the number of teams in the running. Let's say that the Dodgers, Mets, and Braves all offer really nice packages of prospects for Mark, but Mark rejects trades to those teams. Then a team like the Cardinals (who already know that Mark will accept a trade there) can step in and offer a lot less for him.

QUOTE (hawksox13 @ Jun 3, 2010 -> 07:11 AM) Has A.J. said that he will decline trades to other teams? I know a lot of people are caught up on his 10/5 rights, but it seems to me that if a contender came calling he would welcome the opportunity to go out and try to win another championship. He doesn't seem to take well to losing. I may have missed something, but I just don't see that being a stumbling block in moving A.J. I'm not sure that AJ would be super-excited about leaving Chicago, nor am I sure that other managers are falling over themselves to pick up his baggage. He's no Milton Bradley, but he does rub a lot of people the wrong way. He's also not hitting this year. The option year on his contract kicks in (with a modest raise) if he's dealt. Some teams may see that as a negative, and some may view it as a positive. Mark has a limited NTC, but I'm not sure if his 10/5 rights kick in this season. The market for Mark is going to be limited, so we're not going to get a ton in return via a bidding war (especially if Mark continues to pitch like a #3). The main motive for dealing Mark would be salary relief.

Teahen is a bad 3B and is getting paid way too much. But he's not nearly as bad a hitter as some people here are suggesting. Right now, he's sporting a 94 OPS+ and a .340 OBP. Not good, but not horrible either. He projects as a 90-100 OPS+ guy with a .330-ish OBP and some gap power. That's not a bad guy to have at the back of the lineup. DFAing Teahen would be an incredibly dumb move. If you don't want him on the roster anymore, you eat half of his contract and trade him for a throw-away prospect. You don't eat the entire contract out of anger. The Sox are looking at losing both PK and Jones next year and are cutting payroll. It's unlikely that Kenny will address both positions via free agency. If nobody in the minors is ready next March (the likely scenario), Teahen at 1B or DH for a year is a likely get-me-by option.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 12:04 PM) LOL, I hope you don't mean 1B or corner OF for the Chicago White Sox. At that point you may as well DFA him and eat the rest of his bad contract, because there will be reclamation projects available at the league minimum over the offseason who will offer far greater upside at those positions than Mark Teahen would. Kenny isn't going to DFA a guy with $10M remaining on his contract. He could deal him for a throw-away prospect while eating a portion of that salary, but he tends to not do that. It's more likely that Teahen plays LF and Pierre is the odd man out.

QUOTE (pktmotion @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 12:02 PM) No way. He doesn't mash enough to even be considered for a prime hitting position. Imagine how bad this lineup is going to be without PK, AJ, and Jones next year. Teahen might be the fifth-best hitter in the lineup. Teahen's getting paid way too much money to be a utility player.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 11:47 AM) Vizquel can at least field the position, and is going to give you the same sort of offensive numbers that Teahen has to this point anyway. Teahen's OPS has been significantly better than Vizquel's. I realize that's a "tallest midget" comparison, but at least Teahen's is capable of an occasional extra-base hit. Agreed about his defense, though. I foresee Teahen moving to 1B or a corner OF position next year.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 11:06 AM) Teahen getting the hell out of here is a blessing. Not when Vizquel and Nix are the other options.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 07:38 AM) That's why I said 1 in 50. Its not quite zero. But its such a long shot now, that it seems better to think about 2011. If you happen to catch some magical run somehow along the way, then great. Sadly, I'm beginning to agree with you. If they're still several games under .500 a few weeks from now, I'll be sticking a fork in them as well. QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jun 2, 2010 -> 08:11 AM) KW will get some major pressure from JR and the shareholders to drop payroll at any cost come the end of June is my guess. Yep. JR alluded to this earlier in the year. Yeah, there's a good chance that our only compensation for AJ will be a draft pick. Jenks will probably be claimed off of waivers in August (somebody will take a flyer on him), but the money saved will be minimal at that point. I'd be talking to PK about a contract extension right now. If he indicates that he wants to test the FA market at the end of the season, I'd be looking to deal him as well.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 09:20 PM) None of this matters until we get a manager that can make the right decisions. This is Ozzie's team, and he deserves to take the fall for it and be fired now or at the end of the year along with the majority of his coaching staff. As bad as some of Ozzie's decisions have been, I don't think that's the problem. The major problem that I saw last year (which may have carried over into this year) was that players didn't seem to be listening to the coaching staff (as evidenced by their terrible situational hitting) and appeared to be just going through the motions by the time that August rolled around. And this isn't a new phenomenon. Coaches in most professional sports tend to not stick around forever because their ability to project authority and urgency eventually wears off, complacency sets in, and players eventually just show up to collect a paycheck. Perhaps the Sox clubhouse has reached that point with Ozzie and his staff?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 08:03 PM) I'd like to know who we could've added that would've offset the crap that has been Beckham, CQ, Ramirez, Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle and Jenks? This isn't aimed at you, but I get so sick and tired of the constant venom spewed towards Ozzie and Kenny. Blame some of these f***in' million dollar players that are s***tin' the f***in' bed. Exactly. This problem was evident last year as well.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) Cowley really went out on a limb with that. The guy seems miserable covering the Sox. He mocks them whenever he can. Maybe he should quit. Cowley's career may be over soon as well.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 11:32 AM) Why can't Beckham be moved to third and Nix second? I know it is psyche thing but Beckham and Nix are comparable at second and Beckham is better at third. Most likely because Ozzie wants Beckham focusing on his swing right now, rather than re-learning how to play 3B.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 05:51 AM) If Lilliputian is going up and Beckham is going down, I think we can safely say that KW's analysis of the first section of the season is "Epic fail, time to shake up". If that move happens, I'd be surprised if AJ isn't dealt. In that case, Jones would likely be moved as well. Wouldn't be surprised if PK were shopped either. QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 06:22 AM) I hope Nix gets legit playing time over the next 1.5 weeks. He has received too inconsistent playing time this year to make any sound judgments on his performance. I really think if he gets starter's at-bats, he would post these type of numbers over a full year: .260, 25 HR, 75 RBI with good SB numbers Those numbers are a bit of a stretch, IMO, but I'd still much rather see Nix out there than Vizquel. There's a remote possibility that Nix may still develop into an every-day player.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2010 -> 08:53 PM) That's a fair point, and I see both sides of the coin. I'm not if I agree with that last statement, but honestly, neither of us can really know. I think from where we're sitting a reasonable argument can be made for either approach. We'll just have to trust that those in charge are balancing the long and short term goals of both Gordon and the team. And I also see your point about Beckham frustrating and embarrassing himself if he were to continue swinging the stick this way for the remaining 2/3 of the season. That would obviously not help him either. Hopefully Bacon goes off this month and this topic becomes a non-issue.

If Beckham is still hitting like this in August, I won't complain too loudly if he were optioned to Charlotte. But I just don't think that this is the time to do it. Struggling and learning how to overcome adversity is part of becoming a professional in any line of work. I agree that he shouldn't be left hanging indefinitely, but panicking over his mental state after two bad months will arrest his development more than it will help.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2010 -> 08:09 PM) He was in Charlotte for a week basically. He was not in Birmingham for that long either, to be honest. Yes, his acension through the minor leagues was fast and easy. As was his rise with the big league club last year. But obviously, it was not something he has been able to sustain. Just to reset the debate here a little bit, I don't think anyone is arguing that Gordon has to go down to Charlotte to necessarily "prove he belongs," but rather he needs to go down to regain confidence, refresh his mental attitude a bit, and tighten up his mechanics against a caliber of pitcher that will allow him to do so perhaps a little more easily. I don't think that confidence is a problem with Beckham. Agreed about working on his mechanics, but I don't necessarily think that a trip to Charlotte is necessary for that (at least not at this point). If he can't get his mechanics straightened out against back-of-the-rotation starters and in batting practice, one has to wonder what kind of instruction he's getting in Chicago. If Beckham is still hitting around the Mendoza Line two months from now, sending him to Charlotte might not be a bad idea - in the sense that he may respond better to a different hitting instructor.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2010 -> 05:54 PM) I don't agree with what BearSox is saying, but he does have a point. Look at things this way...imagine Beckham had not been called up last year, and this was his first shot at the big leagues. Keeping him up for the benefit of the team would be viewed as toxic for his development. But because he did have success for 300 PAs last season, it is not. Should the success Beckham experienced last year excuse the organization from being more cognizant of his development as opposed to the needs of the MLB club? The thing about Beckham, though, is that he's not some 19-year-old a year removed from high school. He set school records in his three years at Georgia, hit well in A-ball after he was drafted, hit .394 in the Arizona Fall League, and then raked in AA and AAA before getting called up the following year. He has no more "developing" to do at that level. And his numbers in Chicago last year reinforce the argument that he belongs in the bigs. At the very least, hitting the panic button 8 weeks into the season is WAY premature.

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ May 31, 2010 -> 10:53 AM) That'll be hard to accomplish going 25-12. With the way we've been playing I can see us going 16-11 in June. Hopefully we play better and make it 18-9. That would make one great June. I pretty much agree with this. If we can eclipse .500 by the end of the month, that would be a massive improvement and may preclude Kenny from selling players off (except Jenks, who is certainly going onto waivers and may be claimed in late August).

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 02:16 PM) (2) I could couldn't care less who takes over for him at the MLB level. The whole point in sending him down would be to try something different and see if he can figure stuff out facing inferior pitching. No, the "whole point" is some sort of illogical retribution on your part because Beckham has failed to hit over an 8-week span. There's nothing logical about replacing Beckham's bat in the lineup with Vizquel's, or helping Beckham to hit major-league pitching by putting him up against the same inferior level of minor-league/college pitching that he's absolutely smoked over the past few years. Think of it this way: When you master a video game at the Novice level, you don't improve at the Advanced level by continuing to beat up the CPU at the Novice level.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) If Beckham is too fragile mentally to handle that situation then, he doesn't deserve to be in the big leagues to begin with. Top prospects are called up and sent down all the time. The only one who would be giving up in a situation like that would be Beckham. (1) There's no evidence that Beckham is "mentally fragile." (2) There's currently nobody in-house to replace Beckham (Vizquel has an even lower OPS+) (3) There's no point in wasting Beckham's options if there's no better option to replace hit bat in the lineup.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:36 PM) And I'm glad that you're not in charge of Sox player development.... what a terrible argument. No one on this board is qualified for such a job. Most people on this board realize that your timetable for the development of a 23-year-old is completely unrealistic.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ May 31, 2010 -> 10:25 AM) I like Konerko and all but given all of the current puzzle pieces I don't expect he'll be back/ don't want him back at the expense of what would make for a better team. We need left-handed power. What we need is left handed-power. Prospects most likely to join the team shortly are Flowers and Viciedo (yikes, though, just 5 walks in 48 games). Kenny's #1 priority during this season and/or the offseason should be trying to acquire someone like Gonzalez or Berkman or someone else. We don't have a whole lot of salary coming off the books and if there's room for just one (relatively) big signing, it needs to be a serious lefty bat. If there isn't any salary room for "one (relatively) big signing," why in the heck would Kenny go after Gonzalez? Somebody like PK or Berkman would make a lot more sense.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 09:32 AM) I don't see how 2/3's to 1/2 a season isn't being patient. I'm glad that you're not in charge of Sox player development.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:35 AM) Agreed 100%. No one loves Konerko more than me, but this is a business and unless he is willing to sign something like a 3 year 21 million dollar contract, he's not worth bringing back. And even if we do trade him, that doesn't rule out bringing him back in the offseason as a FA. But we gotta do whatever is best for the club. And the same goes for Buehrle to. I think that 3/21 is a fair offer for PK. The year he's having and Teahen's contract would almost make 3/15 a lowball offer. This is the last "big" contract he's going to get, so something like 2/14 is probably not going to do it. Those of you who think that we don't need PK next year have way too much faith in guys like Flowers and Viciedo. I'd rather try to get a "hometown discount" out of PK than over-pay for somebody in free agency this winter. If I'm KW, I'm talking to PK about an extension right now. If he wants to test the FA market this winter, I'd be looking to deal him.