WCSox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 3, 2010 -> 02:37 PM) Sure about that? QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 3, 2010 -> 03:46 PM) I think saying Young never developed as a hitter is like saying that about Mike Cameron at the same point in his career...maybe disappointment compared to the high ceiling possible, but he's far from done as an impact major league ballplayer, not even close. Um, small sample size? Perhaps it would've been more correct me for to say that he hasn't yet developed as a hitter, but let's not forget that this guy hasn't eclipsed an OPS+ of 90 in three full seasons and his slugging percentage has declined steadily over that time. Yeah, maybe he will turn the corner this year. And, hell, Jayson Nix might as well (only one year older than Young, former first-round pick). But I won't bet on either until I see more prolonged success at the ML level. As for Cameron, he developed more quickly than Young did with far fewer ML plate appearances (actually had a really nice first full season). His plate discipline was also A LOT better than Young's at the same age. Due to the latter factor and the fact that Young's BB/K ratio is still bad, I don't see Young developing into as proficient a hitter as Cameron did.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 3, 2010 -> 02:26 PM) how many teams have traded for Vazquez and won the deal? We may have "won" in the sense that we got some decent pitching out of him, Young never developed as a hitter, and we recouped much of his contract extension by dealing him (and getting Flowers in return). At the very least, the damage was minimal.

I agree that getting back to .500 is a reasonable goal. If they can do that, the momentum could carry them into contention. If the Sox are still under .500 two months from now, guys like AJ and Jenks will be on the trading block.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ May 3, 2010 -> 02:02 AM) The time to have traded Buerhle was at the trade deadline last year when his value was higher than it is now (and yes, I suggested it and was clobbered). We saw with Feddy Garcia how trading somebody a year early can net a prospect or two that can help you later. Then again, the early returns on the Javy Vasquez deal don't look so good).We were going nowhere last year and it was obvious by the end of July that we needed to reload.` Who is going to want Mark now that he is stinking up the joint? Besides, I believe that there is a contract escalation clause that Mark would have to void in the event he is traded. If we trade Mark, it most likely will be a salary dump whereby we get little in return. Trading Mark a week after he threw a perfect game last season would've been an epic PR disaster. That said, I expect that Mark will be dealt next year if the Sox are out of contention (it's unlikely that he'll continue to suck this badly). We will probably not get much in return (as I imagine that Kenny will bend over backwards to send him to St. Louis), but the salary dump will be significant. MB's contract would also trigger an automatic fifth year, which may make him valuable to an organization that wants more than a two-month rental.

The glass may still be half-full... but it's cracked and slowly leaking. If not repaired by late June, it'll be empty.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 2, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) So far, this year is showing that the rebuild while "playing for this year" combo that KW tries to do is in it's 5th year of failing to repeat 2005. They'd be better off slashing payroll in the offseason and playing Hudson, Flowers, Viciedo, Morel etc., next year in Chicago and taking their lumps. If payroll is down, the droves of fair-weather Sox fans that won't show up for games in 2011 won't affect the bottom line as much and they can truly rebuild through high draft picks and youth getting MLB experience. The Sox hadn't done that in their past history until they took a dump from 1986-1989 and got those high draft picks. McDowell, Fernandez, Thomas, and Ventura were cornerstones of a seriously good team from 1990-1995. It would have never happened without those bad years. I don't think that Kenny's "retool on the fly" strategy is sustainable over the long-term, and especially if you don't have a very strong farm system. That said, Kenny doesn't seem to want to sacrifice a rebuilding year or two. It'll be interesting to see what happens down the road.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 2, 2010 -> 04:05 PM) Let's not act like the Sox lineup is somehow weaker than the Padres lineup. Obviously you are exaggerating, but it's not like teams would pitch around Gonzalez to get to Konerko, Quentin, Jones, or Rios on a regular basis. I was talking about next year and beyond. PK and Jones are both free agents this winter and Quentin looks like a shell of the player that he was in 2008 (even when he's healthy). This is one of the reasons that I want PK brought back. Imagine this offense without him and Jones.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) Plus JR already threw out the sticking their necks out financially line. Their advanced sale is lagging, big time. They really needed a decent start. I think the payroll will be -$15-25 million lower next year if this year is a total flop. That could be just attrition with Konerko, AJP and Jenks easily discarded, or it could be something bigger than that. As I posted in the gamethread, I received an out of the blue how are you doing how's everything call from my ticket rep on Friday. I have not received one of those in 7 years. I'm guessing they are very concerned. I completely agree. JR, Einhorn, and the rest of the Board are not going to continue to pay $100M a year for a third-place team. They'll shed payroll next year. History shows that they're not afraid to hold an unpopular firesale and to completely rebuild with prospects. My guess is that PK is given a three-year extension at about half to 2/3 of his current yearly salary. There are way too many holes on this team and not enough young ML-ready players to fill them over the next few years. Paulie's bat and leadership skills make him a nice bridge to the likes of Flowers and D2.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 2, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) I dunno man, Paulie and Andruw are performing well-above what can be expected of them right now...I mean Paulie is basically doing what we would expect from Adrian and our offense is still brutal right now. Once those two come down to earth a bit, adding a guy like Adrian wouldn't be a whole lot different than what we have going now, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have him, but one guy an offense does not make. We have two 1.1 OPS players right now, and we still can't score. Thank you. Signing Adrian Gonzalez to a long-term deal isn't going to change the fact that the rest of the roster can't get on base routinely. Hell, AGon might end up breaking Barry Bonds' single-season walk record on the Sox. I'd sell off veterans for good young players before I forked down $100M+ for AGon. There are just too many holes to fill right now. I'm also not buying this notion that guys like Pierre and Teahen are constricting the Sox's ability to sign veteran talent. While I agree that Teahen is overpaid, neither of these guys are owed nearly enough money to prevent Kenny from signing a quality bat. And it's not like Kenny currently has any reason to throw more money at this dung hill of a team, so it's a moot point right now.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 2, 2010 -> 11:38 AM) But you really think we'll give him a 5/100 deal? With the way attendance looks like, as well as what would be needed to keep Danks around, you're looking at almost 50 million dollars in the core of Peavy/Rios/Gonzalez. This is why the Sox will most likely not trade for/re-sign AGon. They just don't invest that kind of money into one contract. They've never ponied up $70M in a single deal, and $100M+ seems like a pipe dream.

QUOTE (Cali @ May 1, 2010 -> 02:05 PM) Beckham needs to be moved down. He's putting too much pressure on himself, bat him 6th or 7th. If he's gonna be the face of the franchise for the next decade, he ain't gonna be doing it from the 2-hole.... I would be fine with swapping Beckham and Rios in the lineup right now. Nice win and all with several really nice individual contributions, but I can't keep Linebrink's performance out of my head. I had hoped that he'd turn a corner this year, but it's tough to see that happening now. He might be the worst contract that the Sox have given out since Jamie Navarro.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Apr 30, 2010 -> 12:37 PM) Why does he need to get over himself? It sounds like he's got a dollar amount that he is willing to play for and doesn't want to accept less. He's earned over $70 million dollars in his career and I doubt he needs the money. Would you accept a job for 1/3-1/2 of what you thought you were worth if you didn't have to? He can value himself at whatever dollar amount that he wants. But that doesn't mean that the rest of MLB needs to accept his over-inflated opinion of his current skill set.

Kenny's not going anywhere. He's easily in the top half of GMs in the league, and arguably in the Top 10. Outside of Linebrink, he hasn't given out any truly bad contracts in recent memory. And he's gotten some absolute steals since over that time (Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin, etc.) The teams that he's put together over the past five years have, for the most part, been heavy on established talent, but simply haven't produced. That blame for that goes on the coaching staff, not the GM. The one weak aspect of Kenny's tenure in Chicago (the farm system) has improved considerably over the past few years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2010 -> 05:54 AM) So we are going to bench Pierre based on short term stats, even though he has a history of hitting around .300, but we aren't supposed to look at the leadoff hitter based on those same short term trends? The last line is a strawman as Teahen is our 3B no matter where he hits. I see no problem with Teahen as a temporary leadoff hitter. Agreed that Beckham at leadoff is a bad idea. He's young, he's struggling, and despite what some people here want, Ozzie is still going to use the leadoff spot for National League-style ball. That's an ill-suited role for a guy with Chase Utley's skill set.

QUOTE (earthshiner @ Apr 30, 2010 -> 10:47 AM) "'I'm not going to a bad team, and I'm not playing for $1.5million." Funny how Thome doesn't have a problem playing for $1.5 million. JD needs to get over himself. He's old, the market is bad, he can't play defense anymore, and he couldn't hit during the second half of last season. He's not getting Damon money, or even Teahen money.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 30, 2010 -> 08:05 AM) I wouldn't count it out if Carlos had to hit the DL for some reason. I'd be surprised if Q didn't hit the DL at some point. From what I've heard, Dye hasn't faced live pitching since last September. Even if he did agree to come back as a DH on the cheap, I don't know that he'd even be an offensive upgrade over Kotsay.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 04:05 PM) Yeah, that's why I thought even with a decent amount of saves, last year he was horrible. He had a lot of lay up saves. Ozzie put him in with 3 run leads. He owes Ozzie some money. He lost weight in the offseason supposedly (He looks the same to me) and did OK in spring training, so I understand paying him this year, but unless he finds his form, I can't see him in a White Sox uniform beyond this year. I completely agree. And even if he does rebound, I'd still be looking to go with Thornton or Santos next year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 02:33 PM) Jenks will need to go a couple months with a WHIP well below 1.5 to get his season numbers down to that. Do you think that's likely? We haven't even completed one full month, and you're already claiming than Jenks is untradeable. That doesn't make much sense to me. Yeah, he's obviously going to have to get his act together for him to convince another team to pick up the remaining 1/3 or so of his salary. But I don't think that's impossible. And a lot of things can happen to other teams over the next couple of months. What if Rivera blows out his elbow? What if Papelbon tears his rotator cuff? If I were a gambling man, I wouldn't bet that somebody eventually trades for Bobby. But I think that it's a possibility. If we're out of it in July (which appears likely), dealing Bobby then, when teams will over-pay for established closers, is the time to do it. Obviously, nobody will give up anything for his last year of rights, where his arb number will be $8.5M+.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) Wagner was actually showing signs of getting better, and was coming back from an injury. I'm assuming that Jenks doesn't still have an ERA near 5 and a WHIP near 2 at the deadline, as he most likely won't. If his WHIP is around 1.4 or 1.5 then, there will likely be some interest.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) Fantastic. Did they mention who's leading off? I'd probably go with Teahen for now. But he's obviously not a long-term answer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) Unless you mean Charlotte...who out there would take him? Somebody who is desperate for a bullpen arm at the deadline and doesn't mind burning $3M. The Red Sox claimed Wagner last year for approximately the same amount.

That was ugly, but a win is a win. QUOTE (qwerty @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 02:09 PM) Jenks has got to be watched closer than ever. I think it's very possible that he doesn't finish the year in Chicago.

Thanks, but I don't have access. Can you summarize the article?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 01:13 PM) My man love for Davey Johnson is unabated. He's hasn't coached in the majors in 10 years but he's been managing internationally and now works in the Nat's front office. He's a man made of fire and passion with a heart insulated in steel that was forged in the bowels of hell. He also studies the game, is willing to take risks in the Weaver-Ball mold, knows how to run an offense, and has as many rings on his fingers as Ozzie does. I don't know, Johnson got pushed around pretty hard by both Ripken and Angelos in Baltimore. Granted, both of those guys can be real passive-aggressive assholes at times, and that not an enviable position to be in, but I don't really put Johnson in the same league as Earl Weaver. Still, he might not be a bad manager under a decent guy like JR and with players who don't try to undermine his authority.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 05:47 AM) Not just that but his fastball was sitting at 88-91 MPH. I dont whether or not the gun in Texas is slow but to me that was quite alarming. DJ just mentioned that the Ballpark's gun is really slow. Gavin is apparently throwing 88 mph fastballs right now.