WCSox

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) Kenny will have all kinds of competition if he shops Jenks. Qualls and Bell will be among those on the trading block, plus Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, Valverde, Wagner, Hoffman, etc. are all free agents. Maybe Huston Street is on the block too. There are all kinds of options, so it's not like Jenks would be the far-and-away #1 closer on the market which other teams will fight over. Kenny will not be able to get a major haul out of Jenks when he's projected to make $7M+ in arbitration and other guys should be out there as free agents for around that same price and only costing draft picks as opposed to top MLB/MiLB talent. Agreed. The only realistic immediate-impact talent that Kenny might get for Jenks is Carl Crawford. And that would only be because the Rays need a closer and Crawford only has one year left on his contract. Otherwise, dealing Bobby would likely be a salary dump for some minor leaguers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2009 -> 07:59 AM) You can look at Paul Konerko's 2003 season as something to give you hope. Didn't Paulie play through an injury in '03? If Rios hits .270, hits 18 HRs, and plays his usual defense next year, I'll be satisfied.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2009 -> 08:23 AM) I think the average falling off, plus not playing the first two months of the season will hurt Gordo. The fact that he cooled off is key. If he would've finished the season hitting .310 or something, he may have been the front-runner.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 08:55 AM) I'd do the same, because AJ is an iron man and like you said, you could get more for Flowers probably. If, say, the Royals offered Soria for Flowers and Jenks (not that they would), I'd pull the trigger. Outside of something crazy like that, I wouldn't be too interested in dealing Flowers.

The movement on his pitches last night was incredible. His last two starts should dispel the myth that he can't be a Cy Young-type pitcher outside of Petco/the NL.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 08:05 AM) I wouldn't. AJ is not going to play forever. And remember the mess of crap that caught before we had AJ. If we truly believe Flowers is the real deal you keep ahold of him with both hands and you develop him. AJ is only 32 and is also a left-handed .280-.300 hitter. Those guys don't exactly grow on trees, and Flowers is nothing but a prospect at this point. That said, I wouldn't deal Flowers either. Either AJ walks next winter and Kenny takes the draft picks, or the Sox try to sign him to a two-year deal and have him play a lot of 1B. It wouldn't be a bad idea to slowly bring Flowers along at C, depending on what AJ will command salary-wise and whether or not he'll be OK with a diminished role at C.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 05:27 AM) Everyone close to the team has said the losing bothered AJ more than any other player. They also said that while he isn't the most liked player in the clubhouse, he probably is the most respected. AJ means more to the White Sox than his numbers. Given the choice, I'd rather deal Flowers and sign AJ to an extension. You'd probably get more in return for Flowers anyway.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 08:46 PM) Mark's performance the last two months, plus his contract, means no one will take him for what you guys are considering. His trading value is waaay down. One thing to remember about his contract is that the option year becomes guaranteed is he's dealt. That might limit the number of small- and medium-payroll teams that would be in the market for him. Dealing Mark right now doesn't make much sense, for a number of reasons already mentioned in this thread. If the Sox are out of it in July of 2011, trading him to the Cardinals would make sense. Before then, not so much.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 06:17 PM) The issue with Werth is...he's the Phillies only RH bat in the middle of that lineup. Maybe they'd do something like moving him if they got a good offer, but that offer is going to have to include a RH bat. I imagine that they'd want Beckham, or perhaps Quentin and somebody like Flowers. No thanks.

QUOTE (daggins @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) tru, tru Truth be told the market isn't looking good for moving Jenksy. It probably wasn't that bad before the calf injury. But that may have been the last straw. The problem with Jenks is that it makes little sense to trade him for anything but a ML-ready player at this point. But I get the feeling that Kenny would have to package him with somebody like Flowers to make that happen. And I don't want to move Flowers, unless it's for somebody like Crawford or Dunn AND that they sign a contract extension as part of the deal. I just don't see all of that happening.

QUOTE (daggins @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:49 PM) Jenks has little value to a team like the Nats or Marlins so that won't happen. The Phils have the need but i've heard their payroll is bumping against its ceiling. Maybe if the win the Series again. He might get some looks from the Angels, given Fuentes' disappointing season. Dunno what to expect, but it will happen fast if it happens at all. I doubt that the Angels will want Jenks back, especially after they dumped him for alcohol and attitude problems.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) Neither of those players can be had for a closer. Especially, if said closer is Bobby Jenks. I imagine that Kenny would have to throw in another minor league player or two, but keep in mind that Crawford and Dunn only have one year left on their contracts. The Rays are also in the market for a closer.

If I were Kenny, I'd be dangling Jenks for Adam Dunn or Carl Crawford. Unfortunately, the Nats are such a mess that they probably wouldn't be interested in Bobby.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 11:06 AM) And my God, did someone suggest Konerko at C? Yes he played there many eons ago in the minors, but the guy has hip and knee issues and isn't young and hasn't played there in forever - I'd rather have the pitcher hit, than risk Paulie that way. As an *emergency* 3rd catcher. In the same way that Walter Payton was the Bears' 3rd string QB and backup kicker. I also said that it probably wasn't a good idea, so we're in agreement there.

It *might* be possible to play AJ and Flowers in the same lineup and use Paulie as the emergency 3rd catcher. But he hasn't caught for so long that it probably wouldn't be a good idea.

I'd love for Kotsay to return as a 4th outfielder.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 05:11 PM) Because why get draft picks when you can get AAA/Major League Ready prospects? If the Rays still feel that their window of opportunity is open, keeping Crawford around for one more season makes sense.

QUOTE (longshot7 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) He doesn't write for mlb.com - it's a legit source that doesn't need a rahrah cheerleader-type. I'm not privy to their books or long-term plans, but I don't see why the Rays need to move either of these guys this winter. Upton's under team control through 2012 and they can always let Crawford walk next winter and take the draft picks.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 10:09 AM) Coop can't give Javy a brain. He couldn't give him a pair of testicles either.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 12:16 PM) Maybe just because their contract status's, but i still wouldn't. I doubt Hudson will be as good as Gavin. Gavin has cy young type stuff. I agree with this. That said, I wouldn't want to trade Hudson right now either.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) I don't buy that. This piece isn't antagonistic or insightfuly. It just seems like it was written on a mixture of barbiturates and alcohol. Maybe. But it still utilizes Moronotti's "antagonize the reader" formula. It's a shame that sports journalism has gone so far down the tubes over the past 15 or so years.

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:16 AM) I have to disagree with you. The fact that the S&P 500 has run up some 60% from its low suggests two very important things to me. First, the market was probably oversold during the recession (which I believe is now over). It's easy to understand why that would be - there was panic and uncertainty fueled by financials that led to uncertainty everywhere else. Financials back all other industries, so when banks are broken, every other industry will suffer to some degree. The second reason for the run up is why markets continue to increase in any time period, and that's because actual production (i.e. sales) exceed expectations. If the market runs up due to earnings numbers exceeding expectations and encouraging guidance from these companies, then jobs will soon follow in order to keep up with demand. As more people being to spend later this year, the excess of money created by the Fed over the past year will flood the system and trigger inflation, and the Fed will have to increase interest rates to combat it (foreign investors will likely demand higher interest rates as well). Both of these factors will curb spending and job creation. The extent to which this happens remains to be seen, but a double-dip recession is a very real possibility. Some of the legislation currently being debated in Congress will also lead to tax increases, which would likely compound the problem. We're not out of the woods at all. The Sox really restored credibility with the fans in 2005, and the effects are still evident. To put things in perspective, the Sox often drew crowds of 16,000 in the late '90s, while the economy was still riding the tech boom. At the very least, the Sox will probably draw a minimum of 2 million next year. That's not bad, but they may not be able to field a $100 million team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 07:52 AM) So you aren't comparing him to Getz, but you are... That makes total sense. The next time that Upton posts an OBP of .306 and slugs .360 over the course of a full season, I'll be sure to compare him to Barry Bonds or Willie Mays.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 05:47 AM) So then you admit you are wasting your time making a comparison you don't even believe. That's what we need is more inane arguments on Soxtalk. Upton and Getz have nearly identical OPS and OPS+ this season. Thus, it's not inaccurate to say that Upton is having a Getz-like season at the plate. Making a point via the comparison of two unlike things is not a revolutionary concept.