WCSox

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 08:14 PM) he forgot the green font somewhere in there. Seriously. Kenny Williams adds Jake Peavy and Alex Rios to a team already loaded with a ton of veteran talent, and people think that he did a terrible job this year. Un-freaking-believable.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 07:04 PM) should be a fire Kenny Williams poll. He got garbage (marquez and Betemit) for Nick Swisher. He got mostly garbage (maybe Flowers comes through) for Vazquez, who is having an excellent season. He got garbage for Brandon Allen. He added Rios, who has quickly shown us why Toronto wanted him gone for nothing in return. He added an injured starting pitcher (Peavy) while leaving the 09 staff badly short-handed, triggering this slide. He had a dream that either Colon or Jose could help. He's had a very, very, very bad year at GM. Worst. Post. Ever.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) Which ones? Contreras, Dye, Konerko, Alexei, Linebrink, Dotel, and Pena, to name a few.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) Overall, we've been talking about the window for this team for years. We have been on borrowed time for years. The middle of the line-up, the heart is made up of streaky power guys who are station to station. Until that is changed, the White Sox are going to be inconsistant scoring runs. ^^^ This

I love how so many people here constantly call for the heads of coaches and managers, but express comparatively little outrage at the players' lack of execution.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 08:02 AM) Going into the season with Fields at 3B, Getz and Nix at 2B, Brian f***ing Anderson in CF, and then having the balls to throw Contreras and Colon out there as our 4-5 SP's is not putting a solid team out there. Thome, Dye, Konerko, Quentin, Alexei, A.J., Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Jenks, and Thornton are pretty solid, no? You can't have All-Stars at every position. The problem is that the first three of those are declining, the fourth is playing through plantar fascitis, and the fifth is having a bad season.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 07:50 AM) as long as it is just a lingering effect of the line drive I'm not overly worried, I just hope it's not a new injury. Peavy went on the DL with elbow issues last year. I don't like the sound of this.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 09:55 PM) He was demoted to the bullpen only to be raised back to being a starter again, all before he threw a single pitch in relief. He was demoted to the bullpen again yesterday, according to Gonzalez.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 08:14 PM) If you do poorly at your job, no matter if it's for lack of effort or just the necessary skills to accomplish it, you lose that job. And demonstrating to the other employees that they have to perform their duties correctly or else their job is on the line is just an added bonus. Jose already lost his job. He's been demoted to the bullpen. But apparently humiliating him by DFAing him with just one month left on his three-year deal is a better option because it'll save the Sox money. Oh wait, it won't. Ummm... because it'll create more roster space. Oh, no, that won't matter either, with the rosters expanding on Tuesday. Oh, I know, it'll allow the Sox to placate the angry and sadistic members of its fan base! Yeah, that sounds like a winning formula. Contrary to what you believe, the world doesn't revolve around the bottom line. Concepts such as effort, past performance, seniority, and class all play a role in the way that employees are evaluated and handled. Now that in no way means that Jose shouldn't suffer any negative consequences for pitching poorly. But he's already been demoted the bullpen. And with the rosters opening up in just two days, he won't be squeezing a more deserving player out of a roster spot. So there's no tangible benefit to kicking him off the team at this point. I'm sure that you'll be really disappointed when Jose is still employed by the Sox at this time next month. But if it makes you feel better, you can head over to his house and kick his dog around for a while.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) Clearly we can't DFA Linebrink. He's signed for too long. Either put him in only for garbage time, or send him to the minors to figure stuff out. And as it has been stated repeatedly, there's a huge difference between managing a baseball franchise and business. I assume some of you think I just go around firing people or screaming at them for the slightest mistake. That's not true at all. I almost never get upset about anything but the Sox. But, sometimes people need to be fired for not doing their job. I let somebody go earlier this week because she would never do her job. I'd have to physically sit her down and tell her what to do and when I walked away, she's stop working within five minutes and begin texting or daydreaming. When it became obvious that it was a constantly recurring problem, I told her to pack up and get out immediately after she had been warned repeatedly. Constantly screwing up and/or not doing your job = fired. This describes both the girl and Jose Contreras. Wow, what a horrible analogy. Let's first consider the fact that you're not paying the girl after you fire her. The Sox would still be paying Contreras for September if they let him go. And with the rosters expanding, demoting Contreras to the pen for mop-up duty makes quite a bit of sense. So DFAing these two would do nothing positive for the Sox. These people that supposedly work for you don't sound like highly-skilled workers, meaning that they can be easily replaced. With Peavy experiencing elbow problems, Richard and Poreda in SD, and Hudson not ready for prime time, Jose is not easily replaceable right now. In addition, this girl that you supposedly fired was obviously lazy and not putting in a good-faith effort to earn her paycheck. The same cannot be said about guys like Contreras and JD. Say what you want about those two, but they're proven professionals. If you treat those two types of workers in the same way, you're a pretty crappy manager.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:51 PM) I'd still take that over Cox.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 07:19 PM) Peavy with tightness near his elbow. If this isn't related to getting hit by the line drive, then someone in the Sox organization needs to lose their job. There's no reason at all for him to be pitching right now unless he's 100 percent. Yet, the prevailing wisdom in this thread is that Peavy should make as many starts as possible in September. Because, you know, showing that Kenny got a good deal ASAP and appeasing overly-eager fans is more important than the long-term interests of this organization. Just f'n shut him down. He can pitch next year when we're playing for something important.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:12 PM) When you aren't hitting it looks like you have quit. You can believe these guys want to hit because that means $$$$$, but for whatever reason it's just gone. You're team looks really really bad when you're not hitting. At the very least, you'd think that all of the guys in their contract years would be trying their asses off.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) You may be speaking a little early. If Kenny was going to DFA JD or Jose, he would've done it by now.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:38 PM) In your opinion, yes. In my opinion, no. And in Ozzie and Kenny's opinion, yes. They realize that DFAing a veteran for the sake of "sending a message" is counter-productive to building a winning franchise.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:31 PM) Again, what you view as pointless would serve as a warning and kick in the ass to most other people. Yep, it'll say, "If you struggle down the stretch, we'll throw you under the bus." That's a message that will endear every prospective free agent to the White Sox. DFAing players out of spite at the end of August (with no tangible benefit to your organization) may sooth your anger and make you feel like a tough guy, but it's a really stupid way to run a baseball team.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:24 PM) Don't take it too seriously. It was a joke. Yeah, I'm sure. Which would be absolutely pointless, with the rosters expanding on Tuesday.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:15 PM) That is awesome. I agree. These guys need to get called out. Calling players out is a lot different than permanently benching or DFAing them with a month to go in the season. But since you've obviously never managed another human being in a work environment before, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference.

QUOTE (DonkeyKongerko @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) Ozzie's response Good. Now let's see if these guys respond.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) I understand what you're sayin....but that's my problem with this. If scouting reports on the Sox say down and away with everything...don't you think it's the hitting coach's job to "coach"? I understand they're professionals, veterans and all...but if there's no input from a coaching staff in regards to hitting...what's the actual point of having a hitting coach? And if he is emphasizing taking the outside pitches (that they're probably going to get a steady stream of), the other way and they're not even trying or listening...therein lies the problem. Is it all Walkers fault. No. But goddamn...what's the point of having a hitting instructor if nobody is listening to him? But again...none of us are around them so we don't know what conversations are taking place. I was under the impression that Walker's job had more to do with fixing mechanics than anything else. If certain hitters aren't listening to Walker, that's a stronger indictment on those players than Walker. Swisher and Fields both got run out of town for refusing to listen to him. I've never believed that hitting coaches have that much of an impact on a veteran team. Not nearly the extent that pitching coaches do. Maybe the Sox's 25 man roster would respond better to somebody other than Walker. But my feeling, with this particular team, is that they're just not that good anymore. I don't think that a guy like Don Mattingly (who has had tremendous success with the Yankees' and Dodgers' lineups) would get any more out of this crew. From what I can tell, firing Walker and replacing him with Joe Average Pitching Coach would help this lineup about as much as kicking one's dog after a Sox loss.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) Really? It's a philosophy. Hell...I remember DJ talking about his time with Minnesota and how it was instilled into them at the lower levels as well. Our philosophy at the plate SUCKS! Are you claiming that Walker is telling them to pull everything? I seriously doubt that. It seems more likely that guys like JD and Alexei are going up there and just doing whatever the hell they want to do. That's a player problem, not a hitting coach problem.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) I'd just like to see these guys make a concerted effort to take the ball the other way for god sakes. You can tell the scouting report on the Sox...outside. Everybody and their mom can see the pull-happy crew that is the Sox. Goddamn...it shouldn't be rocket science. That's the thing I blame Walker for the most. How is Walker responsible for this lineup trying to pull everything? Is he taking their at-bats?

This team is a good example of what happens when you have too many declining veterans on your roster. I've been cautiously optimistic all season, but these guys are done. If the lack of execution hasn't doomed them, the lack of focus has.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Walker either does not have a plan or the players do not listen to him. Either way, he's ineffective and not doing his job. Or maybe the blame should be put on the veterans who already know how to hit and still aren't producing. This lineup peaked in 2006, and age has unquestionably diminished the skills of JD, PK, and JT since then. When the heart of your lineup is in decline and you're running guys like Nix and Pods out there daily, it's not terribly surprising that they're not scoring on a consistent basis.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) Have you ever heard of a coach getting fired just to send a message? Yes, and I completely disagree with it. If the Sox fire Walker, I want them to do it for the right reasons. When the people who aren't hitting are 10- and 14-year veterans on the down-sides of their careers, it's difficult to argue that it's Greg Walker's fault. As a fan, I wouldn't buy it. But if they truly believe that Walker isn't bringing anything to the table, and that they could do better with somebody else, they shouldn't care what I think.