WCSox

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 15, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) Contreras can't pitch more than 3 innings right now. He's earned the demotion. Maybe, but I'd wait to see how Freddy pitches before pulling the trigger. Hudson appears to be the only other viable option at this point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 15, 2009 -> 08:14 AM) The original post I replied to mention Flowers as a possible "huge" upgrade from AJP. I can't recall if defense or calling a game, (which, BTW, White Sox coaches will not do) had anything to do with it, but when you consider Fisk's .766 OPS with the Sox and AJP's .744 OPS with the Sox, a huge upgrade would be an upgrade over Carlton Fisk and he has his likeness on the OF wall. Fisk put up an OPS of 800 or higher 8 times in his career when he played at least 100 games. 2 of those came after he turned 40. Bench had an OPS when he caught at least 100 games of at least .800 9 times. Ivan Rodriquez, 8 times in the same situation. Piazza blows them all away, and he'll be a HOF, although not without suspicion. It's also worth considering that Fisk and Bench played the game in an era where an .800 OPS was more difficult to achieve. But I completely agree that, even in a best-case scenario, Flowers projects to be more of a modest upgrade over AJP. A.J.'s no slouch at the plate.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 15, 2009 -> 07:46 AM) Johnny Bench career OPS .817. Ivan Rodriquez career OPS .809. Carlton Fisk career OPS .797. Carlton Fisk White Sox OPS .766. IF Flowers puts up an OPS of .800 as a catcher, he's HOF material. That would be strongly dependent on how long he plays. In this day and age, I think that you need either 300 HRs or 200 HRs and a Mauer-like batting average to get into the Hall as a catcher. If he puts up an OPS of .800 for six or seven years and then flames out, he won't come close.

Contreras has a history of being overly-sensitive, and I don't think that demoting him will help. That said, he may not have a choice if Freddy is able to out-pitch him.

QUOTE (G&T @ Aug 15, 2009 -> 07:04 AM) Some guys can be lazy and be really good. Yeah, if they have Manny's talent.

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 05:08 PM) I wouldn't bunt with a guy on 3rd. It's much easier to get a sac fly. This

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 04:04 PM) What he's saying (I think) is that for teams near, at, or over their budgets, about 40 games isn't enough to offset the remaining cost of the contract. I don't think that there are THAT many contenders who are at or over their budgets. Remember Kenny complaining that the Sox were at their budget limit two months ago? Baseball attendance isn't down anywhere near what was predicted back in March. I could easily see a team like the Phillies, Dodgers, or Cardinals (who are going to draw well over 3 million this year) add another $4M to their books if they think that Wagner will get them into the playoffs (and possibly further). If the Mets don't move Wagner, it'll be because either nobody is convinced that he'll be able to pitch at a high level for the next two months or because Minaya wants too much in return. The $4M is of lesser importance to a number of contending NL teams.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 03:28 PM) $4M for ~40 games is a pretty significant amount of money to give to a reliever. We as Sox fans complain about Linebrink and Dotel and they get that for an entire season. Total salary on a contract is a lot more important than dollars per game. When the Sox traded for Peavy, nobody cared about the Sox over-paying him to pitch for only one month this year. The problem was the $70 million or so owed to him over the course of the contract. If you're in a the playoff hunt, the 40 games in August/September or September/October are worth a lot more than 40 games in April/May. If contending teams weren't willing to over-pay for good players in July or August, we wouldn't see numerous trades after the All Star break every year.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) Dodgers acquired Sherill so I don't know if they'd go for Wagner or not. Phillies added a lot of payroll so again, not too certain on whether they'd put a straight waiver claim. I basically think all of those teams would be interested but I think anyone that wants him probably wants the Mets to pick up at least $2 million so my guess is no one put a claim in because of that (but that is all speculation on my part). I don't consider $4M a ridiculously extravagant amount of money to add (even in this economy), and the only NL contender that I know doesn't want to add ANY payroll is the Cubs. It's pretty much impossible to tell what's going on at this point. It would be difficult to believe that Minaya didn't put Wagner on waivers, but I would think that the interested parties would've been leaked by now. Either that, or Minaya IS dangling him but no serious talks have happened because nobody wants to give up anybody decent for a guy coming off of major arm surgery.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) I can't imagine many teams willing to pick up the $4M contract so my guess is that he's already cleared waivers and at this point you'd be talking about the Mets picking up close to half of that contract and its just a matter of what the opponent is willing to give up. I'll bet that the Cardinals, Pihllies, Giants, and Dodgers would be willing to do it. And they'd all get a shot before us.

QUOTE (GO CHI SOX! @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) I dont think the Mets will want anything of value, just salary relief. The Mets would be on the hook for less than $3 million by keeping Wagner. That's a far cry from the Jays being on the hook for well over $60 million with Rios, not to mention that the Mets are in a much better financial position than the Jays. Minaya will want something decent in return for Wagner. And this is one of the reasons why we probably won't land him.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 01:12 PM) I like Jenks. all I am saying is that Wagner gives the sox a very nice security blanket for setup AND closer Sorry, I wasn't directing those comments towards you specifically. Agreed that Wagner is a bonus to the Sox bullpen, regardless of his role.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) he would be quite a get, it would make Thorntons job much more consistent as well, especially with Jenks' recent injury problems Jenks has given up a grand total of two hits, one walk, and zero runs in his last four appearances. Funny how he's suddenly pitching better without kidney stone pain. That said, I'm all for Wagner at that price. A bullpen of Thornton, Wagner, and Jenks would be VERY formidable.

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QUOTE (Hanky Panky @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 05:18 AM) bacon slayer love likes girls a bit older rookie of the year QUOTE (G&T @ Aug 14, 2009 -> 05:34 AM) The White Sox do not Play fundamental baseball Hurts playoff chances Amen, brother.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 09:53 AM) No, if you move someone from the DH to a field position then the DH gets repalced by the pitcher. Doh! I see now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 09:44 AM) Here's the problem. Flowers DH's for a day. AJ starts at Catcher. Game gets the 5th inning and AJ takes a ball to the groin. Once we all stop laughing because AJ can't move, we realize...AJ can't move, and our other catcher is DHing for the day. Gavin Floyd then has to take at bats as our DH. Nix or Wise can't DH in that situation? I realize that you're potentially limited by putting two catchers in the lineup at the same time, but you'd also have an extra roster spot for a utility infielder or outfielder. Maybe I'm not looking at this correctly, but I don't see how it's a huge problem.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 09:32 AM) Of course...if we don't clear out the logjams in the Outfield and possibly in the infield, using our C as a DH is quite difficult. And using our C at DH without having a 3rd catcher is virtually impossible, with good reason. I'm not following you. If you have two people on your roster capable of playing C at a high level, I don't see a need for a 3rd. Given that backup catchers typically don't hit any better than utility players, I don't see a problem with somebody like Nix DHing every once in a while if, say, Flowers catches and A.J. needs a day off. It's not like Castro is a better bat than Nix. Did the Tigers carry a 3rd catcher on their roster when they had both Pudge and Inge? Agreed that the OF needs to be thinned out, and I'm assuming that happens this winter. At the very least, Pods is likely gone.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 09:07 AM) I'm not sure about AJ at first. But, here is another thought. With Flowers' bat, if its as good as it appears it might be, it would be nice to get him some AB's at DH, perhaps to spell an aging Thome. But to do that, you need one of the bench guys to be capable of playing catcher, just in case. I don't think any of the current ones fit that category. But if you found one that did, then you could improve your lineups on off days for your main DH, and developer Flowers' bat faster. That's true, and I would have no problem with Flowers DHing for a while. A.J. should definitely still be our starting catcher next year but my thought process is that if you already have Flowers and he's competent at C, moving A.J. to a position that's less taxing on his knees may be better in the long run (if he's re-signed past next season). And, of course, the feasibility of even keeping A.J. around depends on a lot of other things.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 08:54 AM) But that all said, AJ brings a lot more to the table than a bat and a glove. We don't know if Flowers will be able to provide that. But I like the idea of Flowers backing up AJ next year, hopefully to learn some of those more subtle but important aspects of catching - game calling, pitcher handling, etc. Flowers can also then take a year to adjust slowly to major league pitching as a hitter. This works well for Flowers to start in 2011. I definitely agree with bringing up Flowers as a backup next year. If both Dye and Thome are let go this winter (which seems possible, but unlikely), maybe signing A.J. to another 3-year deal and eventually moving him to 1B (and Paulie to DH) might be an option. That would eliminate the need for a backup catcher on the roster spot, and keep A.J.'s leadership and solid bat.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 06:49 AM) They were pretty damn unlucky last night. I'm unsure if I've ever seen more luck/blown calls. Pods had a damn double taken away that kicked up chalk that would have scored at least a run, about 15 balls kicked off the mound or pitcher directly to a defensive player... it was just one of those really frustrating nights. Yeah, the ball bounced Seattle's way a few times last night, but I'm not going to make excuses for them. Pods got picked off of third like a f'n Little Leaguer. Cox sent Nix home on a fly ball to Ichiro that wasn't nearly deep enough. And even in the middle of what looked like a dominant 10 K effort from Felix, they Sox still managed to get 6 hits and 4 walks off of him... but couldn't get a single runner in. Going 0-11 w/ RISP is f'n inexcusable. This offense hasn't even looked like it's been trying for the past week.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 13, 2009 -> 06:46 AM) To be fair, this wasn't one of those times were some no-name starting pitcher faced the Sox for the first time and they folded. Not to mention the no-name relievers that they couldn't score on. Last night was the worst offensive effort I've ever seen from the Sox. I went to bed after they were 0-11 with RISP.

So, everyone wanted to get rid of Jenks two weeks ago and now Pena should be run out of town as well? Wow, Thornton and Linebrink are going to throw about 200 innings each next year.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 12, 2009 -> 09:18 PM) What happened to our deep bench now that Rios is here? I would've rather seen Nix than Dye in that situation. But I would've been tempted to pinch Paulie.

QUOTE (GordoTheGreat @ Aug 12, 2009 -> 09:16 PM) This SCREAMS walk-off. Maybe in the 10th, but I like Thornton's chances.