WCSox

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 10:47 AM) I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying if Hawk perceives that we got slighted by an ump and the next batter takes advantage, he reacts exactly like the Rays announcers did last night. When Sox players commit two bone-headed defensive plays in one inning that cost them the lead, Hawk cherry-picks a balls-and-strikes call and blames the umps for the loss later in the game? I don't recall him ever doing that.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 10:20 AM) I disagree. If the roles were reversed he would keep arguing that the bad play on the field would never have happened if the ump made the right call on balls and strikes. He's done that a million times. Hawk and Stone both have histories of calling out players who make mistakes that cost games. Listening to last night's Rays telecast, you'd think that Laz Diaz threw the meatball that Alexei crushed into CF, and then tripped Upton.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 10:10 AM) I generally don't either, but this would be the pot calling the kettle black. You make a good point here, but these guys piled on Diaz heavily AFTER Upton stupidly misplayed an almost-routine fly ball and turned an inning-ending flyout into a two-run triple. Upton lost the f'n game for them, yet they put all of the blame on Diaz. I realize that Hawk whines a lot about the umpiring, but he doesn't blame them for a loss when Sox players make stupid defensive mistakes.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 07:35 AM) Did you catch the TB telecast? I did, and the TB announcers complained about the non 3rd strike call to Alexei (which resulted in a triple a couple pitches later) from Laz Diaz from the 7th, until the game was over. I mean they had camera shots on him and were grilling him non stop the last couple innings. Note how they didn't complain nearly as much about Upton's stupid ass turning an inning-ending flyout into a two-run triple. Nor did they say a peep when Jenks got squeezed on at least two similar pitches the previous day. The TB announcers are complete hacks. For all of his whining and excessive homerness, at least Hawk knows how to call a game.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 09:32 AM) JD will produce more in the long run, and as much as I'll be sad to see Big Jim go, JD gives the team a better shot at competing and winning. Hey, you and I agree on something!

I like Thome's leadership, left-handed bat, and general awesomeness as a hitter. But I really think that Dye is a better fit for this team for the next 2-3 years. He's younger, has less change of experiencing age-related diminished skills, has had fewer nagging injury problems, and can do something other than DH. While Thome has the OBP advantage via walks, Dye has the slugging advantage this season (a trend that may continue). I'd give JD the slight edge for the future.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 08:17 PM) Not having BA anymore is going to make those 1 run leads in the 9th very scary. Sadly, Wise is still a massive defensive upgrade over Pods in CF. Pods looks completely lost out there, and I'm pretty sure that my mother has a stronger arm than him. QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 07:21 AM) Not exactly something we as Sox fans can really complain about, considering Hawk will still be b****ing about a bad call from the 2nd well into the 8th inning. It makes me cringe when he does that because I know other fans are listening to him and thinks "wow, the Sox announcers are such whiners." Good point.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 08:10 PM) ps. I love Pods and his contributions tonight and almost every night, but do you guys feel a lot less comfy with him out there in the ninth in vast centerfield? I really think there is a need for a defensive cf specialist in baseball. And that's you know who in our ogranization. Maybe I'm wrong, but are you guys a little queasy with Pods out there, especially late in the game. That's a good point. I have no idea why Pods was out there in the 9th this evening. Unless Ozzie has completely lost his faith in his 'pen, and was thinking about the possibility of Wise batting third in the bottom of the inning.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 08:02 PM) Thanks to MLB.TV I missed the entire 9th inning. Can anyone tell me what happened with the Thornton/Longoria battle? Was that the final out? Mr. Tony Parker popped out to Pods in shallow CF.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 06:55 PM) That's debatable. I'd argue that Black Jack knows a whole lot more about pitching and the pitchers arm than Ozzie knows. Afterall, McDowell is a former major league pitcher and is a true baseball guy who loves and studies the game. Not saying Ozzie doesn't know a lot about pitching, but he wouldn't know what a pitcher feels like in that situation last night. Now, as far as Clayton showing signs to Ozzie of him fatiguing, that's a different story. But I'll believe that when Ozzie and Richard say so, right now it would be pure speculation. Ozzie certainly knows Clayton Richard's arm a lot better than McDowell. McDowell also has a vested interest in stirring the pot to increase his readership, so I take his comments with a liberal dose of salt.

Nice spot-start by Torres. Not overwhelmingly awesome, but he kept us in the game. And big ups to Thornton for the two-inning save. The Rays announcers are such whiners. They wouldn't shut up about the missed 3rd strike call on Alexei, as if they were the only ones who've been getting screwed by poor calls this series.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 05:11 PM) i have to listen to the dang rays broadcasters...im not liking them so much As annoying as Hawk can be at times, he and Stoney might be the best duo in the business. When you hear small-market amateurs like these guys, you appreciate what you have.

Holy crap, Torres makes Buehrle look like a freaking plodder out there!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) Do you really think the White Sox would sign someone for more than 3 years and more than $10 million per season as a FA in this offseason? Just curious...I think the financial landscape for Sox future contracts has changed dramatically from 06-08. Comparing Sabathia/Burnett/Tex and Yankees free-spending ways doesn't have very much relevancy to us anymore. Yes, if it's for the right player. Kenny has already shown his hand with the completed deal for Peavy. I also expect the Sox to try to add to their youth via dangling guys like Jenks and A.J. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 04:40 PM) JD extending is a possible I'm a big supporter of an extension for JD. When Thome walks as a FA, JD takes the DH role, and Quentin moves to RF.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 04:18 PM) I'll counteroffer you (and disagree that $7-8.5 million in 2010 and $8.5-10.0 million in 2011 is cheap FOR THE WHITE SOX IN THIS ECONOMY) $160 million wasn't cheap for Sabathia in this economy either, but the Yankees still paid him. Jenks won't cost anybody more than $10 million, as the "renewal" for his services is optional. History suggests that they'll get a solid 2010 and 2011 from him, at minimal financial risk. Alexei is off the table. He's proven ML talent, who can play either middle infield position relatively well and has 20-HR power. I wouldn't trade Beckham either. I'd consider dealing Flowers, depending on how long I wanted to keep A.J. around. Perhaps I'm in a minority here, but the vast majority of prospects are just that: prospects. If they haven't done anything impressive at the ML level, they're worth a hell of a lot less than guys like Alexei and Beckham.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) How do you define significant time? He hit the 15 day DL last year. Point taken, but that doesn't even begin to compare to missing 70+ games with chronic back problems that surgery (apparently) didn't correct a year and a half ago.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) Is Jenks closer to Papelbon or the "Joe Crede" of closers? Are you kidding me? When was the last time that Jenks missed a significant amount of time due to an injury? Are you seriously predicting that Jenks is going to hit the DL later this month? Don't you think you're getting a little carried away? Very confident. If I'm a GM whose team is competitive and is in need of an high-tier closer with minimal financial commitment, I do that deal.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) You're hilarious. I have to leave work. I don't have time keep dealing with you changing and manipulating things like a coward. Give Chris Rongey a call after tonight's game. He gets paid to listen to people like you.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) Ok so his stuff isnt getting worse you're saying but his Whip has gone up the last 2 years? Right now, it's approximately equal to his WHIP form 2005, when you (incorrectly) claim that he was at his best. It's also much better than it was in 2006, what you describe as a "good season."

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:11 PM) Think of him like we did Joe Crede at that point in his Sox career, year-to-year contracts, uncertainty building up about his health and performance. And Joe never made it to the neighborhood of $10 million per year, I think he maxed out closer to $6.5 or maybe 7 million. Yeah, let's compare Jenks to a guy who missed the latter halves of the past two seasons with chronic back problems, and didn't respond to his surgery from 2007. That's a brilliant comparison.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) Jenks has been in a decline - with his stuff - for a good couple years. We all can agree on that now. No, we can't. Your information about Jenks' "decline over the years" appears to be overly-anecdotal... Year WHIP 2005 1.25 2006 1.39 2007 0.89 2008 1.10 2009 1.29 WHIP is the most statistically-relevant tool for measuring a closer's effectiveness, and there is no obvious pattern of "decline over the years." Jenks was phenomenal in 2007, and he wasn't throwing anywhere near 100 on a regular basis. This is such a silly comment that I don't know where to begin. First of all, Jenks was a high-tier closer for a much longer time than Putz. Secondly, Jenks hasn't been injured since 2004, even with heavy use of a surgically-repaired elbow. Putz, on the other hand, was injured just last season in Seattle. Third, Putz's lack of durability and Omar Minaya's idiotic decision to over-pay him have nothing to do with what other teams will pay for a healthier and more accomplished Bobby Jenks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 01:16 PM) I haven't seen 100, but I have seen him hit 99 a couple of times this year. I also recall Jenks maxing out in the mid-90's back in early 2006. This is nothing new.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) If you look back at one of my previous posts or first post in this section I believe I said his velocity has been going down, the problem now is his inability to locate it. So are you claiming that his command, like his velocity, is forever lost now? I hope not. Jenks has been throwing in the mid-90's for over two years now, and I don't believe I ever claimed that he'd be throwing 100 again. My point is that he doesn't need to throw 98-100 mph on a regular basis to be an effective closer. It's also possible that he's going through a "dead arm" period right now. I recall this happening to him in years past, and it didn't exactly doom him to a career of mediocrity. I must've missed the memo about Bobby putting on an extra 40 lbs. this past off-season. He pitched well fat in 2005, he pitched well fat in 2006, he pitched well fat in 2007... I didn't realize that we were shopping him right now. Since we're in contention, my plan would be to shop him in November. I think that he's on a decline as well... but a relatively slow one. But I don't see him losing tremendous value in the foreseeable future. You were doing well until you introduced this weak-ass, childish rhetoric. Who says that Kenny is looking for "2-3 elite prospects" for Jenks? Not me. I'd be satisfied with one, and two other relatively good prospects. Again, nobody is confusing Jenks with Halladay or Nathan. Perhaps you and I just disagree on the point that Jenks will still have significant trade value this off-season. He's one of the Top 5 closers in the AL and he's under team control for two more years. There will be suitors. Look at all of the money that the Mets threw at K-Rod as a FA, after he nearly threw his arm off last season. Hell, look at all of the money that they threw at Putz (coming off of an injury, to boot) to be a freaking setup man. You're telling me that other GMs would be afraid to deal for Jenks and his uber-favorable contract status??? No freaking way.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 11:05 AM) No because teams aren't looking to give up what we would require is the point. He is trending downward, losing velocity, struggling and becoming more expensive by the day. Bobby has been "losing velocity" since October of 2005, yet has been about the 5th best closer in the AL over that time. He still has great stuff and there's nothing to suggest that he's suffering from an injury. Jenks' current problem is not his velocity, but his command. He's walking and hitting batters left and right. You're evaluating Jenks's future on less than a month's worth of baseball. This isn't the first time in his career that he hasn't pitched well and has blown a couple of saves, so your prognostication that he's falling apart is dubious at best. Bobby's "body of work" over the past 3+ seasons is nothing short of excellent and, frankly, there's nothing to suggest that he's going into some sort of Billy Koch-like free-fall. Because of this, there will be considerable interest in Jenks during the off-season. He's year-to-year for the next 2 1/2 seasons, which translates into very little financial risk for an interested GM.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 10:21 AM) I don't know who'd have interest in Jenks right now. He sucks over the last X games, his velocity down is no secret, and teams are afraid to pony up the two prospects we'd likely get since he is and will continue to probably be until he hits FA. He is also becoming very expensive. I'd like to see if we can move a couple prospects to our friends in Atlanta should they fall out for Gonzalez. He has experience as a closer and if we prefer Matty T then so be it. But he seems to have been pushed out of the duties for Soriano down there. Fields + _____ anyone? Then if you can find someone willing to move for Jenks and net two top prospects. I'd do it. It's not so much that he is bad right now - cuz frankly he is still pretty good - its the fear that he keeps getting worse, heavier, more expensive, and closer to the day that screw pops out. ha I think that you just answered your own question. I imagine that several teams would be interested in a guy like Jenks, who is still under team control from year-to-year through 2011. Even if arbitration puts him at $8 or $9 million next year and he blows out his elbow, it's not a terribly risky investment for a very good closer with a proven track record.